Replacement motor for Lyson Extractor

[Ringlander]

Just in case it's of use to any of you.... The bearings inside the motor of the Lyson 12 frame "classic" extractor I borrow from a friend failed the last time I used it. Abelo didn't even respond to my requests for a price and leadtime on a new motor, but a quick search on eBay found the exact same 24volt 250 W motor for sale from multiple vendors, for e-scooters. The scooter motors have a sprocket instead of a vee belt pulley but this just swaps across from the old motor to the new without drama. Best price I found was £25 including postage. Bargain.

 

[user 819]

This one ?
Electric Motor 24 Volt 250 Watt 24v 250w Bicycle E Scooter Chain Sprocket 6458056751218 | eBay

 

[user 819]

I'm going down the route of electrifying my old 9 frame radial EHTaylor model from hand crank. Doing it the complicated way with brushless step motor and arduino coding, doing it for a quieter and lighter/smaller motor option and something to do as a small project. Up to now have been using my battery drill but fancy something a bit more permanent and highly controllable.

 

[Ringlander]

Yes, that's the motor. They will accept a lower offer of £25, maybe less...

 

[Kaz]

I'm going down the route of electrifying my old 9 frame radial EHTaylor model from hand crank. Doing it the complicated way with brushless step motor and arduino coding, doing it for a quieter and lighter/smaller motor option and something to do as a small project. Up to now have been using my battery drill but fancy something a bit more permanent and highly controllable.

I would love to convert my manual extractor, does anyone have, and be willing to share, a step by step guide to how they have approached this? Basic enough for someone with no experience preferably

 

[user 819]

You would have to show pics of your extractor mechanism/drive on the crank arm.
My one has a 2.5 gearing on the manual drive so 1 complete handle rotation = 2.5 of the radial cage. When I programme the rotation speed in the Arduino it will be 2.5 times less then the max rpm I will need. With Arduino I can mess with the RPM input amount and set it to what ever max speed I want and control via the potentiometer. Also it has the freewheeling CW needle roller assembly already fitted.
My upgrade when done will cost approx.
Arduino £8.
A shaft coupler £6.50.
Steeper motor £25.
Step motor controller £25.
Motor bracket £7.
Non stepper controller with potentiometer £17.50. (I bought this for the enclosure and mounted potentiometer, the electronic board inside is discarded and instead the Arduino will be housed inside in stead).

Power supply AC to DC for me is zero ££'s as I can simply use ones I have for my ebikes, i can choose to us 24, 36 or 48v DC input.

 

[victor meldrew]

You would have to show pics of your extractor mechanism/drive on the crank arm.
My one has a 2.5 gearing on the manual drive so 1 complete handle rotation = 2.5 of the radial cage. When I programme the rotation speed in the Arduino it will be 2.5 times less then the max rpm I will need. With Arduino I can mess with the RPM input amount and set it to what ever max speed I want and control via the potentiometer. Also it has the freewheeling CW needle roller assembly already fitted.
My upgrade when done will cost approx.
Arduino £8.
A shaft coupler £6.50.
Steeper motor £25.
Step motor controller £25.
Motor bracket £7.
10k Potentiometer £2.

Power supply AC to DC for me is zero ££'s as I can simply use ones I have for my ebikes, i can choose to us 24, 36 or 48v DC input.

The Konigin electric extractors have 3 phase motors. 400v . The control appears to have artificial 3 phase built in .
the motor is more than adequate.

 

[user 819]

Pics of manual set up.



Fitting of electronic components, awaiting delivery of the Arduino board.
Sketch Code for Arduino is already done just need to upload it. Arduino download programming is open source and free off the interweb.

White enclosure with potentiometer is where the Arduino will fit.
Stepper motor underneath it.
The coupler with the orange flexi joint can be bought in many sizes, my one is 8mm to 12mm for shaft fitting the nearest I could get. the shaft on my extractor is 13mm so as the coupler is only aluminium I have enlarged the internal dia out with a cordless drill and reamer.
Moving along to the gearing, the part to the LHS of the big gear is the one way needle roller that allows the cage to freely rotate when power is stopped.
On the RHS is the digital stepper controller.


Of course it is cheaper if I just stick to using the cordless drill by removing the cranking handle, though with the newer set up operation will be much quieter and controlled so I can prep the next frames.

 

[TomH]

Brilliant!

Love a bit of arduino. My last project was an arduino an an ESP8266 to make a wifi chicken coop door opener/closer.

Where did you get your stepper motor?

 

[user 819]

Ebay it is Hema 23 4a one 57mm x 82mm.

I was going to use a small heavy duty MFA geared type brushed motor but they are damned loud and course in operation and no where as near smooth as a brushless motor.

 

[user 819]

Brilliant!

Love a bit of arduino. My last project was an arduino an an ESP8266 to make a wifi chicken coop door opener/closer.

Where did you get your stepper motor?

I like it, let them out from the comfort of indoors.

 

[Kaz]

I am a little bit in love with you guys

 

[user 819]

Kaz, the simplest solution is to undo the grub screw and remover the crank handle and attach a cordless drill to the shaft and gently get it going. One can paly with the trigger to get the right pressure and speed.

 

[paulandrews]

You ca buy pre-geared 240 volt motors with sufficient power off ebay . Connect via a flex coupling direct to the radial cage shaft, no gearing needed. If you wish they also come with a suitable speed controller. They are available in recognized brands or Chinese equivalents.

 

[Newbeeneil]

The Konigin electric extractors have 3 phase motors. 400v . The control appears to have artificial 3 phase built in .
the motor is more than adequate.

My 12 frame Konigin extractor has a 230v 250w motor. Why would you need a three phase motor on something as well balanced as an extractor?

 

[frankenstine]

Single phase induction motors are hardly used anymore. While some applications they are fine the overall trend is even in single phase applications to use 3 ph motors with an inverter drive because it’s all round better.

power factor is a big one for regs that no one actually cares about.
3ph motors are actually cheeper than 1phmotors. Nearly offsets the vfd cost. You’ve got to fit a vfd anyway. 3 ph motors are more reliable, and they offer more low speed torque on a vfd

here now I don’t use any single phase motors put the entire stock on eBay cheep. Anything I build uses 3 ph motors if it’s to be run of 3ph or 1ph. In a lot of kit the only difference between the 3 ph and 1 ph model. Is the positioning of the links on the low voltage transformer to power the electronics and the colour of the plug and the part number on the vfd

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Single phase induction motors are hardly used anymore. While some applications they are fine the overall trend is even in single phase applications to use 3 ph motors with an inverter drive because it’s all round better.

power factor is a big one for regs that no one actually cares about.
3ph motors are actually cheeper than 1phmotors. Nearly offsets the vfd cost. You’ve got to fit a vfd anyway. 3 ph motors are more reliable, and they offer more low speed torque on a vfd

here now I don’t use any single phase motors put the entire stock on eBay cheep. Anything I build uses 3 ph motors if it’s to be run of 3ph or 1ph. In a lot of kit the only difference between the 3 ph and 1 ph model. Is the positioning of the links on the low voltage transformer to power the electronics and the colour of the plug and the part number on the vfd

That's an interesting claim that single phase motors are hardly used anymore. Outside of industrial installations I'd take such claims with a large pinch of salt.

 

[frankenstine]

That's an interesting claim that single phase motors are hardly used anymore. Outside of industrial installations I'd take such claims with a large pinch of salt.

single phase and brush motors are steadily disappearing, its cost, flexibility, and regulation. take the household vacuum cleaner they nearly always were a standard brush motor. now more and more they are a brushless motor ( multi - normally 3 phase motor ) they were never suitable before as been synchronous motors they just wouldn't go fast enough, now it's done easy and cheep. domestic products will for the most part be built the cheapest way that can be got away with within regulations.

I was shocked when hired the local clubs honey extractor it claims to have German parts but its blatantly of Chinese origin using a brush motor with direct speed control achieved by moving the brush pack angel. but where that's made it probably the cheapest way to make a speed controlled motor but it was a shock to see it, actually surprised your allowed to sell such stuff in Europe or UK now

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Pics of manual set up.

This is brilliant. I am replacing a Thornes failed motor and the challenge I am running into is the 90-deg turn (achieved in your situation with the bevel gears). I have a vertically-mounted variable-speed 12V brushed motor off a running treadmill vertically mounted but this is all highly unsatisfactory and as someone said, crazy noisy so any ideas on sourcing the 90-degree turn? I do not have the failed gearbox and motor. (With a view to cribbing @hemo thereafter, of course...)

 

[frankenstine]

something like this ?
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/FCNDK-Worm-Gearboxes/FCNDK30-Worm-Gearbox-51-Ratio-56B5-151872-p