Removed the queen excluder

[Tim.S]

I am using both deep and shallow boxes - but hopefully only for this year purely down to a shortage of kit. It's not a problem just a little inconvenient. Next year will be all deeps if everything goes to plan. The biggest hive is now 2 metres high so it will be interesting getting a deep box off the top of that pile!

 

[rockdoc]

OK, thanks for those replies. I'm going to give it a go with one of existing nationals. Just a few more things I promise. Am I correct in assuming you reduce as per the Rose system in late Autumn and do you add boxes in the centre of the nest or just on top, and if so how do you know when to add them?
Thanks for your patience

 

[Somerford]

DIY Steps needed ?

I am using both deep and shallow boxes - but hopefully only for this year purely down to a shortage of kit. It's not a problem just a little inconvenient. Next year will be all deeps if everything goes to plan. The biggest hive is now 2 metres high so it will be interesting getting a deep box off the top of that pile!

Just happened upon this thread, very intriguing. Perhaps some chunky diy steps or a platform might be needed...?

A hive that tall reminds me of Ormond Aebi's record breaking hive he wrote about in his book.....I don't recall him forgetting a QX though.

Although we're forecast a poor June, its not too late to consider doing this on a spare colony for sure.....I might just do it, although deep boxes and no drone foundation has to be for sure.....perhaps on one of my Paynes PolyHives.....how many 14x12 boxes can I stack ?!

Food for thought !

Regards

S

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just happened upon this thread, very intriguing. Perhaps some chunky diy steps or a platform might be needed...?

Was happy enough with my seven supers on one hive last year (found out that my home made 3/4" plywood deep hive roofs make a great hop up.
This was a queen under a QX mind you - in a standard National brood box.

 

[Somerford]

Was happy enough with my seven supers on one hive lasy year (found out that my home made 3/4" plywood deep hive roofs make a great hop up.
This was a queen under a QX mind you - in a standard National brood box.

Snap....well nearly, nat brood with 5 supers on one hive, another with brood and a half and 5 supers, both with QX. Luckily I'm 6'5 so don't need steps just yet..

Regards

S

 

[Tom Bick]

Was happy enough with my seven supers on one hive lasy year (found out that my home made 3/4" plywood deep hive roofs make a great hop up.
This was a queen under a QX mind you - in a standard National brood box.

Blimey hope still have the queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Blimey hope still have the queen.

yup - demarre'd and making up nucs tomorrow - her sisters are just as good

 

[Tim.S]

It's not just down to being without the excluder of course - that would be far too easy! Lets face it, we have had the mildest winter for donkey's years, I have masses of willow around to provide an source of protein for early brood build up and I am also surrounded by rape fields. But without a doubt my excluder-less hives are well ahead of those with the excluder.
Now we have had 2 weeks of damp cool weather and it could all be downhill from now on! Oh the joys of beekeeping........................................!

 

[Erichalfbee]

yup - demarre'd and making up nucs tomorrow - her sisters are just as good

After my supersedure hive swarmed and an AS continued to make queen cells!!!!!!!!! Can I have one please?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

After my supersedure hive swarmed and an AS continued to make queen cells!!!!!!!!! Can I have one please?

They are also very reluctant to draw queen cells!! not many nucs off this one, but may be demarreeing another this weekend. We'll see how she goes.

 

[Tom Bick]

Well, thinking this evening is this removing the queen excluder the right thing to do??

With the recent bad weather and the inevitable falling back on reserves the bees have cleared the central area of four super frames covering the bottom two supers and HRH has laid up the vacant space.

It’s not a massive disaster and perhaps a bit expected, but leaves me thinking will it get worse, will the bees back fill the supers with honey once the sun starts to shine, supposing she fancies the third and top super not as full as the other two, but now she has a ladder to reach it, she could be anywhere in the hive and I have to break this hive down on each inspection increasing the possibility of disaster.

I am going to hold my nerve and see what happens, but for now hold back on trying a 2nd hive, at least until the sun starts to shine.

There is perhaps one upside this hive is still thriving and full of eggs, open and sealed brood whereas some of my other hives have reduced egg laying considerably and I put this down to the unsettled weather we have had for a few weeks now.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

There is perhaps one upside this hive is still thriving and full of eggs, open and sealed brood whereas some of my other hives have reduced egg laying considerably and I put this down to the unsettled weather we have had for a few weeks now.

I think that's the whole idea and sort it all out later.

 

[Tom Bick]

I think that's the whole idea and sort it all out later.

I think you are right. I expected some brood in the first super but as its my first hive a few worries creep in and inevitable. Perhaps I should go for the 2nd hive after all ??

 

[Tom Bick]

Replaced the queen excluder yesterday. Dont know if this experiment has worked for me, I have brood across five frames in the lower super and two frames in the 2nd super. The brood is emerging and been back filled with honey and if the weather was not so unsettled through mid to late May then the bees would not have fallen back on their stores and I may have had no brood in the supers, who knows I suppose some was to be expected.

The big worry to me was every time I had to inspect and break down the four supers I had no idea where the queen was and although I could count out the top two I could not be 100%. To me too many chances of squashing her. The hive is outperforming the other three in this apiary but given what it was like before I removed the excluder it was always going to. I still not 100% certain if she is below or above the excluder as she was elusive on the day but pretty confident below. I may try it again next year on a smaller hive but for now I am 50/50.

 

[Tim.S]

I very rarely see my queens in my excluder-less hives and I have not squished one yet. The only time this gets to be a problem is if you have to do an a/s as I found out. I too have had brood in the upper boxes but they now seem to be moving down the hive as the upper boxes fill with stores, with a little help from me re-arranging things.
It is my first season this way, but I planned from the start of the year so no excluder was ever added to be removed. It will be interesting to see how things pan out next year with this method if the weather returns to its usual soggy self.

 

[Finman]

The big worry to me was every time I had to inspect and break down the four supers I had no idea where the queen was and although I could count out the top two I could not be 100%..

That problem is self made and it is not real. Excluders duty is to separate honey and brood and it has no duty to protect the queen.

If you have one super full of brood, then you need to use one brood box more.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I'm finding my brood nest is quite defined. She's in the top box, maybe because it's poly. If I ever have to find her I'll pop an empty box under or some such. I don't inspect the nectar boxes very thoroughly. Overall my experience is very like Tim.S's.

 

[Finman]

I'm finding my brood nest is quite defined. She's in the top box, maybe because it's poly. If I ever have to find her I'll pop an empty box under or some such. I don't inspect the nectar boxes very thoroughly. Overall my experience is very like Tim.S's.

Queen is there somewhere...You need not know it. And there are many other things what you do not know.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Queen is there somewhere...You need not know it. And there are many other things what you do not know.

Yes I very seldom look for her. Just hoping no swarm cells so I can keep it that way.

 

[Tom Bick]

That problem is self made and it is not real. Excluders duty is to separate honey and brood and it has no duty to protect the queen.

If you have one super full of brood, then you need to use one brood box more.

The bees are on double brood, standard national, I know not in your league but big for round my way. The problem was and only a slight one is she moved up into the fully capped super and not down partly down to the unsettled weather during May. Also my worries of accidentally squaring her was raised as I have had three hive go Q - this year and did not fancy a fourth. Needless to say the three Q - hives all had excluders so proved no protection to the queens. I can put my hands up to one of the queens but the other two??