Raising Bigger Queens. With thanks to the Apiarist

[Curly green finger's]

I use hundreds of those each season View attachment 40102

What set up is that bud?

 

[mbc]

What set up is that bud?

Its a cell bar frame sold by abelo

 

[Curly green finger's]

Its a cell bar frame sold by abelo

Does the cell bar push out? Or turn so it’s easier to graft into, my home made one’s rotate 90

I was also meaning the colony set up

 

[rolande]

Does the cell bar push out? Or turn so it’s easier to graft into, my home made one’s rotate 90

The devils work!

 

[mbc]

Does the cell bar push out? Or turn so it’s easier to graft into, my home made one’s rotate 90

Push out, quite handy to pop the individual bar onto the frame of larvae you're grafting from

 

[rolande]

Push out, quite handy to pop the individual bar onto the frame of larvae you're grafting from

Or (in my case) to hold the bar in one hand and move it through the fingers as each graft is done so that the thumb is always marking the cup waiting to receive the next larvae.

 

[SWEET]

I graft into the Nicot cup (attached to yellow holder) then push those into the brown sockets. Saves messing about with a frame and rotating (super fast).

 

[Fellstoflats]

I use hundreds of those each season View attachment 40102

What clearance do you have between your bars?

 

[mbc]

What clearance do you have between your bars?

As in the picture, I think its about 3 inches

 

[rolande]

I like to use straight sidebars on the grafting frames. On a BS format, a DN1 (without any spacers) would be ideal. I don't suppose it makes any difference whatsoever in reality but I simply like to be able to crowd the flanking frames right in close to the grafts.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I like to use straight sidebars on the grafting frames. On a BS format, a DN1 (without any spacers) would be ideal. I don't suppose it makes any difference whatsoever in reality but I simply like to be able to crowd the flanking frames right in close to the grafts.

It does make a difference. You don't get (ie I don't get) brace comb between the cells with a DN1. I find that you do with any larger space. The cells are still okay - just a bit more awkward to handle, not least because you might need to remove the excess comb.

 

[Mabee]

I use hundreds of those each season View attachment 40102

I bought one of your queens early 2022, she’s still my most prolific queen and they have never attempted to swarm, lots of honey, lovely calm bees, i’ll be very sad when she goes!

 

[Mabee]

The whole point of the Apiarist blog is that we don’t graft but allow the queen to lay in bigger cups which then become bigger queens (as the eggs are heavier). I don’t think this will ever be used commercially but rather for us smaller scale beekeepers, once we figure out how to do it and can produce a small number of queens this way.
I don’t think there’s any doubt great queens can be raised by grafting and experience but from a hobby beekeeper point of view, i’d be interested in trying to see if it can be done.
-
I think some kind of Jenter cage system with some larger cells could work and then given to a colony in swarm mode (minus queen).
So do the cells need to be vertical for her to lay queen size eggs or would she just lay drone if on the normal face of the comb?
Could we utilise a colony trying to supersede or would this result in inferior queens of the queen herself is sub standard?

 

[jarmo henttu]

The whole point of the Apiarist blog is that we don’t graft but allow the queen to lay in bigger cups which then become bigger queens (as the eggs are heavier).

I do not believe that story. Fact is that bees do not need bigger queens. The queen must get its abdomen into the bottom of cell when it lays.

When a commercial queen breeder sells queens, the post always has one mini queen. Rearing queens in Finland or in UK is not an easy job. To get queens mated in summer has a narrow window.

This year guys have not started queen rearing because hives have no drone.

But this saga, how to get bigger eggs and bigger queens , it is not true.

It is in genes how big queens you get.

 

[JamezF]

I do not believe that story. Fact is that bees do not need bigger queens. The queen must get its abdomen into the bottom of cell when it lays.

When a commercial queen breeder sells queens, the post always has one mini queen. Rearing queens in Finland or in UK is not an easy job. To get queens mated in summer has a narrow window.

This year guys have not started queen rearing because hives have no drone.

But this saga, how to get bigger eggs and bigger queens , it is not true.

It is in genes how big queens you get.

I believe David Evans is suggesting that the science suggests otherwise, with references to research. His article is here if you wish to read it.

James

 

[jarmo henttu]

I believe David Evans is suggesting that the science suggests otherwise, with references to research. His article is here if you wish to read it.

James

How the queen can make bigger eggs for the queen cell cap? How much bigger? Where are weighs?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe David Evans is suggesting that the science suggests otherwise

suggesting? thinking out loud, by what I can see from a quick look at the article, he doesn't say much about bigger being better, in fat at one point he sdays that small queen are as good, he talks more about fecundity and egg laying capabilities rather than size

 

[jarmo henttu]

How the queen can make bigger eggs for the queen cell cap? How much bigger? Where are weighs?

Yeah. I found from.google. 13%bigger than worker's But the queen is 40% bigger that the worker.

 

[jarmo henttu]

suggesting? thinking out loud, by what I can see from a quick look at the article, he doesn't say much about bigger being better, in fat at one point he sdays that small queen are as good, he talks more about fecundity and egg laying capabilities rather than size

I have noticed in my hives, thar best queens are hybrid. For ecample an italian queen and mated with carniolan drones can be a huge layer. 50% better than italian X italian drones.

Then I move the hive to the good pasture. The place can give 200% more honey than nother place. A it is not rare.

We can return to the first question, is the 13% more weigh in the egg essential in beekeeping?

Then you put the excluder and you do not let the queen lay as much as it can.

 

[rolande]

How the queen can make bigger eggs for the queen cell cap? How much bigger? Where are weighs?

But *if* they can, which does seem to be established now, are better eggs in greater part dependent on the nutritional status of the colony at swarming time and can it be sustained if the queen only has access to large cells? Might the stress of being caged in an artificial environment have some kind of negative impact on egg quality irrespective of egg size?

All interesting stuff but I struggle to see a practical use for this knowledge.