Rain in poly hive

[cornishcreamtea]

Does anyone else have a problem with rain collecting in the recess where the frames hang in my paynes poly brood box? It's a new hive this year and all seems to fit together properly. This doesn't happen in the supers. I'm wondering if the Q excluder is creating a gap?

 

[Finman]

.
After keeping polyhives 30 years, I have seen that often.
Polyhive "water balance" is different because wooden hive soaks water droplets inside the wood.. Box is wet, but you cannot see it. In polybox water must be leaded out down the walls and then out.

There are several ways to get water inside

1) slit, where rain can enter
2) condensation inside, and often cold air moving via slit makes condensation water.

If that happens, I mostly open that "water cup" that water can drill down to the floor.

Condensation happens in cold corners and it is better to break those "cups" which gather water. Those gather mold during winter.

3) Too few bees in big space and condensation happens too easily inside the hive.

4) too much ventilation, which keeps interrion cold. Dew point is then inside the hive.

Restrict the room so that bees fill all space and keep them warm.
.

5) If you look after rain to the solid bottom, you may meet water pools on floor. Rain has entered via slit between box and bloor.

6) I can seen often too, that the floor board comes out and makes a landing board. It gathers rain water and it may drill inwards.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Thanks, Finnman. 2 or 3 sound most likely. I'm not sure what 'water cups' are - do you mean I should drill holes in the brood box at the internal corners to allow water to drain down?

 

[Finman]

Thanks, Finnman. 2 or 3 sound most likely. I'm not sure what 'water cups' are - do you mean I should drill holes in the brood box at the internal corners to allow water to drain down?

I do not know the structure of you hive and where the water exists. But use your brains. It cannot be too difficult to solve that problem.

Bees fill small drill holes with propolis. Break the water cup somehow.
. What ever that cup is.

Those are important: where are water droplets, there are mold and rotten bee bodies.

.

 

[Finman]

.
eaves in hives

I have 10 cm eaves in hives. I have found that it solves many rain problems. For example without eaves side boards of roof are always wet and boards will rotten.

Now water roofs are 30 years old and wood is as hard as new wood.

We use exluders, clearing boards and what ever. Those forms slits and gather rain water.

Basic reason is when I start to keep 10 frame poly boxes, and my old boxes were 9 frame wooden boxes. Fitting plate made one inch shelve on outer hive wall.

.

 

[Karsal]

Does anyone else have a problem with rain collecting in the recess where the frames hang in my paynes poly brood box? It's a new hive this year and all seems to fit together properly. This doesn't happen in the supers. I'm wondering if the Q excluder is creating a gap?

Yes I have noticed the same problem with the three paynes poly hives that I have. Only when heavy rain has fallen are they really full of water. May cut the frame runners slightly shorter and see if that solves the problem. This is my third year of use and they don't seem to have caused the bees any problems. Saves them going out for water
It must occur in the wild and they deal with it.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Thanks Karsal. I've emailed paynes to see if they have a comment or solution. I'll post their reply

 

[madasafish]

Simple solution: a insulation roof covering the Paynes roof and its joins.

(Used on my MB poly hive to prevent condensation

 

[bpmurray]

I've noticed it too. I'm convinced that it's the QX that causes a little gap.Now that I've taken the supers & QX off, it's all dry.

 

[Swarm]

I've never experienced this and I've used paynes broods with wooden supers. All my excluders are framed wire, what excluders are you using? If this is in your brood but not the supers, it sounds like the excluder to me.

 

[Finman]

.
Water formation happens in poly hive. In wooden hive the same water goes into the wood.

What you shoud do is to break those water cups or pockets, that water can drill off.

I have very cold here in Winter. I break the propolis joint between box and inner cover. I do not use any duct tape in the joints. Bees do well in theses conditions.

I think that you out there over care many things which has no meaning.

And bees stand well condensation as long as it does not happen over their heads.

 

[Swarm]

Water formation happens in poly hive.

I'm sure it does.
OP is seeing water under the frame lugs, behind the runners, in the brood box but not the supers, which suggest ingress at the excluder.
I've never had this problem which is why I asked what excluder.

 

[Finman]

I'm sure it does.
OP is seeing water under the frame lugs, behind the runners, in the brood box but not the supers, which suggest ingress at the excluder.
I've never had this problem which is why I asked what excluder.

Never or seldom, what ever. Condensation happens for example in -20C. Ice crystals form into cold corners. Respiration air makes snow inside the hive. Then during mild days snow melts. Water drills down, and some water stays in runner ditch. Bees have made that ditch water tight .

That is not rare.

As I wrote, thete are many ways to get water inside the hive.


But no need to hang ourself into that miserable thing.
.
.
.

 

[user 6228]

queen excluders often (almost always) introduce cold spots in insulated (e.g. poly)
None of the queen excluders I have seen to date address this.
The queen excluder needs to have the same thermal conductance as the hive material to avoid cold spots. Wood or metal or solid plastic all have the same problem.

 

[Finman]

queen excluders often (almost always) introduce cold spots in insulated (e.g. poly)
None of the queen excluders I have seen to date address this.
The queen excluder needs to have the same thermal conductance as the hive material to avoid cold spots. Wood or metal or solid plastic all have the same problem.

Excluder is not any problem. It situates above brood, where temp is 35C.

Never heard. It does not work as condensation surface.

.cold spots in brooding hive? Where? Only what I know is entrance and floor.
.

 

[Finman]

.
This goes again too far. Some water droplets behind the runners.

 

[cornishcreamtea]

For info - here is the reply from Paynes. I'm going to remove the QX next weekend, soak up any water in the gullies, put the full super on top for the winter feed ....... and see what happens. Time will tell! Incidentally, the QX is the one supplied with the polyhive by Paynes - rigid plastic. Thank for all your advice. Incidenta

Update for Case 1648 - "Water getting in hive"

I have never had anyone else mention that problem apart from the one we had where the mould injection point was deep and letting the water in, after it was filled it seemed fine. With the super straight on the top without the excluder that hole should be covered over, so you should have no problem.

 

[Finman]

.
My friend made new outer roofs for hives. When I gove oxalic acid to colonies, all new roofs leaked. Insulation foam matress was really wet.

But bees survived. Minimum temp was last winter -36C.

"cold does not kill, neither moisture" ... A new proverb,..
.

 

[Goodwood]

Hi Cornish CT, i have had the same issue with my Paynes polys, especially when there was driving rain hitting my hives up in the hills on the heather last week. The excluders were off so i dont think its simply a Qe issue. I havent rung Payes as I have just accepted that the weather was extreme.
However....
I also had serious mould this recent Winter as it was wet and mild. This was so bad I had to chuck some frames and I am suspiscious it contributed to the loss of a few colonies.
This coming Winter I am considering drilling a small hole into the rear corners of the BB directly into this channel to see if it helps both issues. It will be interesting to see how quickly the bees seal it back up!

 

[cornishcreamtea]

Thanks again all - I've passed your comments to Paynes so they can see it's not just me! Cheerio