Question

[Goran]

If I may ask..
Does anyone did use the frame with some shortened comb ( more place for pulling down the queen cells) and adapted queen excluder ( in purpose to keep queen in that "caged" area) for just few cells high and wide as frame comb, as some "primitive" version of jenter/nicot whatever kit which is used to get queens without grafting. After that I would use it with Cloake board method.
Is this silly, or it can give higher quality queens, as I will know as other mentioned kits exactly when queen laid eggs.
I was thinking if I took frame with comb of the targeted colony, the smell and wax are more natural than artificial kits and due to this queen should easily lay in those cells and after that won't be cleaned out by the bees?
Also financial moment involved..
If this post is pointless please erase it, Vanity isn't my middle name..

 

[drstitson]

you basically mean the miller method.

well established technique - don't need to worry about caging HM though if put in middle of brood.

remember age of eggs is unimportant - feeding can only start once the larvae have hatched!!!!!!!! ;-)

alternative is just to use the alley method - cut out a strip of comb + eggs, fix along bottom edge of a top bar facing down, punch out every 2/3 cells/eggs leaving spaced intact cells.

or why not just use PH's guide to queen rearing and knock up a frame with proper home-made wax cups.

 

[Goran]

Something like that. I was thinking to have some determined number of eggs left ( to don't compete for feeding with worker larvae on same frame), meaning better fed. Also think of using new-white comb, not the black one. I would after checking queen laying same or faster than with jenter just release the queen and lift that frame above qe ( we have commonly qe with entrances), so no additional eggs laid or so. Surplus of eggs will remove ( if any). Of course temporary separation and after that growing in upper box - Cloake board method, nothing invented ( all in same hive), but in small scale for my own needs. When is needed just cut out qcells and use.
Maybe I complicate, I have the whole winter to think what I want, but at the end always I can go back to idea for jenter..
Thanks for Your reply.

 

[drstitson]

perfectly reasonable to confine HM to a portion of comb similar in size to Jentner - using either bought or home made press in cages:

just add b l o g s p o t without the spaces to the links below.

http://3.bp.********.com/-WJY4JXaguhI/UIeik2ZrjEI/AAAAAAAAAys/PiU43LRbLmo/s1600/DSCF0288.JPG

or

http://1.bp.********.com/-MQdA03KXODE/ThJ_iEcnTFI/AAAAAAAAATQ/qIRqd8u0Oek/s320/p2011-07-02-4985.jpg

 

[drstitson]

I'd suggest that best approach for you is:

1. queen caging on comb
2. alley method for setting up comb/eggs for cell building
3. Morris board method (like cloake board but allows sequential rearing attempts; plus smaller volume to pack the bees into).

 

[Goran]

I tried to open with ********, but doesn't work. But never mind, I will see some deeper about morris board ( when I looked it first thought complicate). Cloake for me is "cheap" and simple. I got qe with entrances, just as division board I use "tough" cardboard and after use "recycle" - throw away, and I make it for less than minute.
About caging, this way I want to cage in that area where usually are drawn swarm cells and easy to cut out. I wanted to have some jenter quality queens, simplify, cheaper, without additional equipment ( I got horns on my head when I start to pile things). With this I would need only to make "narrow" cage.
But surely I will read again about Morris board.. Alley method, it somehow isn't for me.

Regards.

 

[Little John]

One other technique I think is worth considering - as an alternative to 'grafting' - is using a cell punch. I discovered the more modern way of doing this very late in the season, so haven't had a chance to try it out 'for real' yet - but when playing with some unwanted combs, found it worked very well indeed.

To make a suitable tool, simply epoxy a pipe (the plumbing sort) ferrule or similar onto a length of bent wire. I used a piece of the s/s strip you find inside windscreen wipers, pushed into a hole drilled in the end of some dowel rod:

Keep the tool in a cup of boiling water, select the cells of interest with a magnifying glass (unless your eyes are good of course) and simply push the tool through the comb, as if you were coring an apple.

Then push the cell out from below, using fingers or a piece of dowel, and transfer to an over-sized cell cup.

I haven't yet figured-out a really fool-proof way of holding the cell firmly in the cell cup, but it can't be difficult - maybe crimping the cup rim with the hot tool would do. I'll work on it.

LJ

 

[drstitson]

if you replace the ****** bit with "b l o g s p o t" (no spaces or ") they work for me.

 

[Goran]

Interesting, I cannot comment it yet. Have to think about it. But we have the whole winter to prepare "evil plans" for next season.
Meant for LJ post..

About the link I will try it later. Thanks.

Regards.

 

[drstitson]

"Alley method, it somehow isn't for me. "

why not?

you have your nice comb with eggs as planned. just cut strips and attach to frame. what's not to like?

 

[Goran]

Alley.. How to say, somehow I don't like. Like in entomology I could prepare many insects ( smelly, ugly..) for insectariums but when I have to prepare cockroach, simply my hand won't listen..

When started with beekeeping first I used swarm cells, than 6th day ( frame of eggs and tearing all sealed qcells 6th day), then get in contact with jenter and Cloake board method after which this year I make combination of 6th day and Cloake board ( got several promising queens). When I saw how it practically work mentor gave me to try by myself jenter and Cloake board ( it was second half of august, some late but I got some great qcells and these days seems got mated, have to recheck for weekend).
That's how I thought about this way avoiding jenter, but to get high quality queens. Last year I bought some queens from selection, it is little to say that I am disappointed. Many queens from my apiary performed better then them ( swarmy, badly mated-lay till half frame, aggressive, nervous on the comb). There were few which I cannot object. So I return to answer from one experienced beekeeper when I asked where I can find good queens: The best queens are which You grow by yourself.

Forgot, saw the pictures of cages. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Little John]

Hello Goran

Just wanted to say that I initially shared your views about the Morris Board being excessively complex - in short I just didn't 'get it'. But then, at that time I didn't have a full copy of the article which describes the method and it's underlying principles.

And then drstitson corrected an assumption I'd made that it only produced emergency cells. Following this I managed to source a full copy of the text, and my eyes were opened. As we sometimes say in Britain, "One instinctively knows when something is right" - and this board certainly is - and I cannot understand why the Morris Board is not more widely known about and used. Perhaps it's this impression of 'apparent complexity' ?

I found reading the text 3 times was necessary: the first time to get a general picture of what the board is all about; the second, to focus on the board's construction; and the third time, to focus on how the board is actually used.

Once I understood exactly how the board works, I found it difficult to understand why I had any initial difficulties - for not only is the board very simple to operate, but I cannot see any obvious way in which it could be improved: Douglas Morris appears to have considered just about every aspect - I doubt it could be bettered, and would commend it to you - at least for consideration.

'best, LJ

 

[Goran]

I will reread more carefully about it. Thanks for giving Your point of view. I try to rationalize my beekeeping as much as I am capable. Now back to the "lab".

Regards.

 

[drstitson]

a slight modification to the board described in the BBKA article is possible - rather than sliding large metal sheets in through the open entrance to seal off the "nuc" parts from the main hive below you can have smaller pieces that sit permanently in slots in the sides of the framing (out when QE open; in to close). That way all your gear stays together for the entire process, rather than having separate sheet hanging around.

 

[Little John]

If the metal sheets are made sufficiently wide and long enough, so that no matter how they are positioned the QX is always covered - there is actually no need to fabricate slots for the metal sheet to run in. That makes construction of the board just that little bit easier.

LJ

 

[drstitson]

sure but having little ones sticking out the side of the board allows simple closure and non-loss of parts.