Queens off lay?

[bpmurray]

I visited two hives on Sunday that are located close together - last week they were so busy that I was fully prepared to do some swarm control. However, the loads of eggs from last week were all capped, with a few occasional larvae, but no eggs & I couldn't find the queens. I don't think both queens have suddenly died nor that they've managed to swarm, since the hives would have created QCs - they had loads of eggs & larvae to work with last weekend. This means that there are two possible explanations:

• Both hives had supercedure cells that I missed and the virgins have hatched, dispatched the old queens and are now waiting to start laying
• Both queens have gone off laying

While I suppose both could be true, I suspect the latter - two simultaneous supercedures is a bit much!

Anyone got any other ideas? Is it normal for queens to go off lay at this time of year?

 

[Finman]

I visited two hives on Sunday that are located close together - last week they were so busy that I was fully prepared to do some swarm control. However, the loads of eggs from last week were all capped, with a few occasional larvae, but no eggs & I couldn't find the queens. I don't think both queens have suddenly died nor that they've managed to swarm, since the hives would have created QCs - they had loads of eggs & larvae to work with last weekend. This means that there are two possible explanations:

• Both hives had supercedure cells that I missed and the virgins have hatched, dispatched the old queens and are now waiting to start laying
• Both queens have gone off laying

While I suppose both could be true, I suspect the latter - two simultaneous supercedures is a bit much!

Anyone got any other ideas? Is it normal for queens to go off lay at this time of year?

They have swarmed and laying Queen had gone.
Because the Queen cells had emerged, the second swarm has left too.

Silent activity on entrance is first sign of swarming
.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Is it normal for queens to go off lay at this time of year?

No.

 

[snelgrove]

They have swarmed and laying Queen had gone.
Because the Queen cells had emerged, the second swarm has left too.

Silent activity on entrance is first sign of swarming
.

 

[Finman]

.
When I clip the wing of queen, and if I cannot see any more eggs or young larvae, I know that the hive have tried to swarm and the queen has died into lawn.

.
It is rare that hive supecedes at the beginning of summer. Really rare. Take queen cells always so that it is going to swarm. At least you do not loose your bees with that thinking.
.

 

[snelgrove]

.
It is rare that hive supecedes at the beginning of summer


I have a 4 year old queen that is being superseded now, but definately supersedure at this time of year is rare and is swarming particularly with last year's queens.

 

[Finman]

.
It is rare that hive supecedes at the beginning of summer


I have a 4 year old queen that is being superseded now, but definately supersedure at this time of year is rare and is swarming particularly with last year's queens.

That is not a question that you had, and I have too lots of individual cases. There are lots of exceptions in main principle.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

.
It is rare that hive supecedes at the beginning of summer


I have a 4 year old queen that is being superseded now, but definately supersedure at this time of year is rare and is swarming particularly with last year's queens.

Not clear. You're saying swarming is rare in May?

 

[beeno]

Hi bpmurray,
From what you are writing you are on a 7 day inspection schedule.
What is the state of your colonies i.e. has the queen got room to lay? I am working hard to keep the brood nests open on my largest colonies. Could it be that you have missed some eggs - easily done? Also, not easy to always see the queen in large colonies. My large colonies have been bitsy at times with the laying pattern but there has been a large flow all of a sudden and I put it down to that. One is now super organised, better watch that one!
In case you have missed all the swarm cells, you need to go in and reduce to one so as not to lose any more bees in cast swarms. Take your time, you might need a torch to see eggs on a cloudy day. Best of luck.

 

[Finman]

Not clear. You're saying swarming is rare in May?

Use your brains... What ever some one writes.

But you are right. Bees particularly swarm, and particularly not. Very unclear ....

 

[snelgrove]

Not clear. You're saying swarming is rare in May?

No saying supersede in spring is rare. Swarming obviously isnt

 

[bpmurray]

They have swarmed and laying Queen had gone.
Because the Queen cells had emerged, the second swarm has left too.

Silent activity on entrance is first sign of swarming
.

As usual, you're probably right. I'll get a chance this afternoon to check them out to be certain. I should have been more careful when I was deliberately building them up to do an early split. I was just too greedy and should have split them as soon as I was able.

Ah well, at least I've learned that lesson! Unfortunately it's going to take a year to try again.

 

[Finman]

. I was just too greedy and should have split them as soon as I was able.

Ah well, at least I've learned that lesson!.

Bad weathers make them swarm, not your greedyness. When weathers are unstabile, and they cannot work, they really swarm.

Well, after 54 years beekeeping, I again learned the lesson. I bought good queen's from 1500 hive owner to half of my hives.

I have had mad swarming years 2 previous years.

My hives swarmed 120% and that professional's swarmed 20%.
So difference is 100%

My apiary was so mixed with forest Carniolans, that I must change the whole genepool. Buying mated queen's I got rid of drone genes. Last time my swarming was as bad 10 years ago when I nursed Carniolans.
.

So I will kick off "the locals" and buy new locals from 300 km from North.

.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Be very careful with any brace comb on the bottom of the frames.
I have a couple of colonies that love to stick a queen cell in the drone comb built on the bottom of the frames. Crafty buggers surround it with drone cells and it looks like a drone cell but it is in fact a queen cell but only the tip is visible. Once sealed you cannot tell the difference.

 

[beeno]

Be very careful with any brace comb on the bottom of the frames.
I have a couple of colonies that love to stick a queen cell in the drone comb built on the bottom of the frames. Crafty buggers surround it with drone cells and it looks like a drone cell but it is in fact a queen cell but only the tip is visible. Once sealed you cannot tell the difference.

I had one built into worker brood. The first thing I knew about it was when I saw the hinged lid!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I had one built into worker brood. The first thing I knew about it was when I saw the hinged lid!

I have a little book "Beekeeping without Finding the Queen". It could use a second edition "Beekeeping without Finding the Queencell". I have come to realise that I have basically to assume I can do neither (and I have the Q corpses to prove it). Even an Apidea is a challenge. But it CAN be worked around. And luckily I have the vision (etc.) needed to graft.

 

[beeno]

I have a little book "Beekeeping without Finding the Queen". It could use a second edition "Beekeeping without Finding the Queencell". I have come to realise that I have basically to assume I can do neither (and I have the Q corpses to prove it). Even an Apidea is a challenge. But it CAN be worked around. And luckily I have the vision (etc.) needed to graft.

An Apidea is a real challenge. Mine swarmed leaving eggs behind. Can someone tell me what they think they were doing?

 

[Finman]

An Apidea is a real challenge. Mine swarmed leaving eggs behind. Can someone tell me what they think they were doing?

50 years ago my guru told, that small mating nucs swarm if you do not take Queens away in time from small mating box. That is why I have used full frame mating nucs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Absconded - it's obvious to the bees that building a colony in such a small boxm is impossible so they've gone to find somewhere more suitable. No mystery there.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

An Apidea is a real challenge. Mine swarmed leaving eggs behind. Can someone tell me what they think they were doing?

The original manual does not suggest a QE once in lay but that is an oversight, and they provide one. Best instructions (including QE after laying) are here. http://beespoke.info/2013/11/30/apidea-instructions/

Don't use a pin; last year mine pushed one down, and I now use a small screw.