Queenless Hive Options....

[simonforeman]

I've read some of the posts on here but would like advice on best way to go....

Last week in my 14x12 hive I had a laying queen that was laying well.... completed my inspection 3 days ago and no eggs and no queen. The brood box was chocka block of nectar and honey, looks like as brood emerged they were filling. I added std brood frame from my new queen nuc with eggs and lava to check if queenless... today checked and 17 queen cells well drawn uncapped but all with lava in them...

As there is no room in hive for a queen to lay what's the best option. I have the swarm I caught that may now be the original queen and I have my bought new queen in a bug and I have the 17 queen cells. This hive is the only hive I have on 14x12 and wanted to get it to std brood next year.

My preferred option if possible would be use one of my std hives swarm or new queen, news paper QE 14x12 queenless hive on top and unite when last of brood hatched extract honey. Is this possible of will there be too many bees? Or leave queenless brood box on with QE staying in an wait till end of summer.

 

[Beefriendly]

As there is no room in hive for a queen to lay what's the best option.

The obvious....create some room.
Tomorrow I have a day of brood frame extraction planned.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The obvious....create some room.
Tomorrow I have a day of brood frame extraction planned.

Snap! I took a few off today myself.
I cant stress the importance of choosing the an extractor that takes brood frames

 

[Beefriendly]

Snap! I took a few off today myself.
I cant stress the importance of choosing the an extractor that takes brood frames

Yes...it was why I chose my particular 20 frame model. It can extract 8 National brood frames radially...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes...it was why I chose my particular 20 frame model. It can extract 8 National brood frames radially...

I’m small fry.
My Giordan takes two 14x12 frames tangentially but hey, it’s better than nothing.

 

[Millet]

Snap! I took a few off today myself.
I cant stress the importance of choosing the an extractor that takes brood frames

I will be taking my extractor to my apiary site on Saturday to do exactly the same (indoors of coarse) to try and free some space up for the Queen... i will ignore the supers for now and concentrate on the brood frames.

 

[Beefriendly]

I’m small fry.
My Giordan takes two 14x12 frames tangentially but hey, it’s better than nothing.

Sorry, shouldn't brag about mine is bigeer than yours..... I spend my money from sales money on better equipment. I suspect you might be buying a few upgrades from your tall stories

 

[mickbees23]

I will be taking my extractor to my apiary site on Saturday to do exactly the same (indoors of coarse) to try and free some space up for the Queen... i will ignore the supers for now and concentrate on the brood frames.

I had to remove 3 lovely full and capped brood frames 2 days ago from one of my garden colonies. They have had space in the supers but just won't move it. I even tried a top entrance for 4 weeks and they just ignored it completely. They managed to fill 2 supers so I extracted those and the brood frames also. Its will be interesting to see if they fill the brood frames back up again..

 

[simonforeman]

I have decided that I will use the first swarm I caught earlier in the year to combine with the queenless 14x12.... my plan is...

Use the newspaper method with QE on top of queenless hive and place the national on top that has the Q+ colony in...Does this work?
The Q+ colony is on 6-7 frames rest is foundation
Do I remove the part filled super on the Q- 14x12 before placing the newspaper,QE and Q+ Colony on top and add right at the top?

Plan would be let them fill the 14x12 box with honey as it is more than 1/2 filled and then extract.

Many thanks.

 

[simonforeman]

Sorry what I didn't say was once combined I will then move std brood box to bottom and 14x12 and super above QE

 

[Millet]

I had to remove 3 lovely full and capped brood frames 2 days ago from one of my garden colonies. They have had space in the supers but just won't move it. I even tried a top entrance for 4 weeks and they just ignored it completely. They managed to fill 2 supers so I extracted those and the brood frames also. Its will be interesting to see if they fill the brood frames back up again..

Its madness at the moment and like you i am wondering if they fill them back up with honey or polish them for the Queen... i have only extracted a few upto now but i dare say i have around three brood boxes on double broods full to the brim of honey and like you again they have space in the supers..

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry, shouldn't brag about mine is bigeer than yours..... I spend my money from sales money on better equipment. I suspect you might be buying a few upgrades from your tall stories

I wish!
I suspect this year is a once in a blue moon for me. Not likely to have such wonderful foraging weather ever again

 

[Erichalfbee]

Its madness at the moment and like you i am wondering if they fill them back up with honey or polish them for the Queen... i have only extracted a few upto now but i dare say i have around three brood boxes on double broods full to the brim of honey and like you again they have space in the supers..

The foundation I am putting in the broods is being drawn and filled with honey. I have honey being put on top of pollen and being capped. Room in the supers with some colonies on 14x12 and a shallow, two with no QXs at all

 

[Beefriendly]

An observation from a couple of snelgroved colonies is that these fecund queens which have been in single brood boxes for the last couple of months are not back filling the brood boxes. Not sure how universal this is, but given my doubles are rammed with honey...I've got queens searching for anywhere to lay at the moment. Brood appearing in end frames when they have remove a cell of honey, brood in pollen frames.
I'm intending to dummy down most of mine into single boxes over the next week or so and make up the space with supers. It's quite a daunting task, but about the only way I can see of freeing up laying room for the queens. Or go to triple brood!
After extracting today I now have about 20 empty brood frames to start the rolling road works off.

 

[Eyeman]

An observation from a couple of snelgroved colonies is that these fecund queens which have been in single brood boxes for the last couple of months are not back filling the brood boxes. Not sure how universal this is, but given my doubles are rammed with honey...I've got queens searching for anywhere to lay at the moment. Brood appearing in end frames when they have remove a cell of honey, brood in pollen frames.
I'm intending to dummy down most of mine into single boxes over the next week or so and make up the space with supers. It's quite a daunting task, but about the only way I can see of freeing up laying room for the queens. Or go to triple brood!
After extracting today I now have about 20 empty brood frames to start the rolling road works off.

If top brood box full of honey and bottom has space/brood then now is the time to reverse the boxes.
If both brood boxes full of honey then take frames of stores out and replace with foundation between central brood frames in bottom brood box- should be drawn out quickly if there is still a flow on. Score with an uncapping fork some capped stores in bottom brood box and keep empty supers above the QE- they should move that honey up to the super.

 

[Beefriendly]

It's good advice Eyeman, but both are clogged in some...it's a variable situation....For every frame I take away and add foundation ...3 days later it's drawn and filled with nectar. Plan is to drop them all down to one box with any brood frames with honey removed and leave the rest as drawn but empty. We shall see.
It's an extraordinary year.

 

[Millet]

The foundation I am putting in the broods is being drawn and filled with honey. I have honey being put on top of pollen and being capped. Room in the supers with some colonies on 14x12 and a shallow, two with no QXs at all

I thought i was going around the twist but i have seen the same, to me it looked like double capped cells ,, like cells capped then drawn out and caped again..

 

[drex]

If top brood box full of honey and bottom has space/brood then now is the time to reverse the boxes.
If both brood boxes full of honey then take frames of stores out and replace with foundation between central brood frames in bottom brood box- should be drawn out quickly if there is still a flow on. Score with an uncapping fork some capped stores in bottom brood box and keep empty supers above the QE- they should move that honey up to the super.

Tried it and it made no difference. Put the honey below and scored the cap pings, with an empty super first in the stack, above the QE. They left the honey where it is and started to fill the top brood box with more honey. Today am going to bite the bullet and extract some brood frames and replace with foundation. Queens are getting tight for space to lay. In a normal year I do one extraction at end of season.

 

[Eyeman]

Tried it and it made no difference. Put the honey below and scored the cap pings, with an empty super first in the stack, above the QE. They left the honey where it is and started to fill the top brood box with more honey. Today am going to bite the bullet and extract some brood frames and replace with foundation. Queens are getting tight for space to lay. In a normal year I do one extraction at end of season.

Some of my colonies like to keep the brood box low in stores where as some others pack it full to bursting. Others are happy to put stores in the bottom brood box near the entrance and make no attempt to move them up. I'm not sure whether this characteristic is down to the way I've managed or not managed the colonies or is due to some inheritable trait. I would love to be able to select for the trait of keeping stores out of the brood box and putting them in the super!!

 

[drex]

So much for the books saying that they do not like honey under the brood. I suppose they will clear it, if and when the queen has to move down to lay, or before the winter. Just been through all my top brood boxes and removed full frames of honey. Average of two per box. Other frames had some brood in them, but some still lots of honey/ nectar. Replaced with foundation. Now to extract, in my summerhouse, in full sun. At least the honey should be fairly runny! Even if I will be dripping in sweat. I made an early start and at least went through the hives before the sun broke through.