Queenless hive advice

[droneslave]

Hi there, we are fairly new to beekeeping and got a 5 frame nuc last season. Unfortunately the Q turned into a drone layer this season and we were advised to execute her asap which we have now done. There are some workers in the hive and other foragers although obviously large number of drones. Have fed them as stores were running very low. There is little brood but were some uncapped larvae when we looked on Thurs 2 June. They are yellow bellies/Buckfast type. My question is should we attempt to secure a new Q from somewhere or see if the bees produce a queen cell of their own and try that? Many thanks in advance!

 

[Winker]

Hi there, we are fairly new to beekeeping and got a 5 frame nuc last season. Unfortunately the Q turned into a drone layer this season and we were advised to execute her asap which we have now done. There are some workers in the hive and other foragers although obviously large number of drones. Have fed them as stores were running very low. There is little brood but were some uncapped larvae when we looked on Thurs 2 June. They are yellow bellies/Buckfast type. My question is should we attempt to secure a new Q from somewhere or see if the bees produce a queen cell of their own and try that? Many thanks in advance!

If you can get a frame with eggs on it, but if not its time to buy a new Queen

 

[Midland Beek]

Your bees are hopelessly queenless and do not have the means to produce a new queen.

 

[666bees]

Been there earlier in the season when you could not buy a queen. It is now dying after it tried twice to raise a queen. Buy one and be done with it.

 

[Susan1]

have had no new brood for over a week and perhaps longer as i could not inspect hive. lots of bees but no brood - should i give up and buy new queen.

 

[nonstandard]

Droneslave and Susan1 (assuming that you have no queen Susan) as far as I know you have four options,

beg a frame with eggs from a fellow beekeeper and let them raise their own replacement, try asking around your local association

beg or collect a swarm and unite them with your bees

buy a queen

beg a queen from someone who is requeening at the moment, try your association again, this will hopefully buy you some time

 

[susbees]

have had no new brood for over a week and perhaps longer as i could not inspect hive. lots of bees but no brood - should i give up and buy new queen.

Not until you've run a test frame or it could be an expensive mistake. Lots of queens have gone off lay with the bad weather etc.

 

[RoseCottage]

I agree with all the above advice. I would contact your local association chairman and explain your situation, usually a test frame can be found easily enough at this time of year...its a lot cheaper than buying a queen.


Additionally, I would consider planning on expanding to two hives when you are ready. I did this last year by buying a second colony. Actually if I had thought about it I should have waited and split my established colony in spring of my second year...again more sensible as the girls may want this themselves (swarm control) and it is a lot cheaper.

Good luck and let us know how you get on,
Sam

 

[rockdoc]

Silly question, but whats a test frame? I may be faced with the same problem, lots of bees and they are filling up the stores, but no brood and no sign of a queen.
Cheers

 

[RoseCottage]

Rockdoc there are no silly questions (wait till my next) but as Rab suggests plenty of silly answers

A test frame is a frame of eggs, larvae, and capped brood taken from another colony and introduced to one the beekeeper feels may be in difficulty. It has a couple of functions:

1. If the beekeeper is unsure whether a queen is present the use of a test frame may help. If there is no queen in the colony then workers will convert one or usually more eggs into queen cells. A clear indicator of queen presence.

2. Introducing a frame will also enable the queenless colony to start the recovery process by establishing a set of queen cells when there is no queen. This may be useful in this posters situation and many others. However, there needs to be certainty that the old queen is gone and that there are sufficient house bees to keep the colony viable.

3. The introduction of the test frame can help add a boost to the colony's numbers. Sometimes it may be necessary to add some house bees too and this means safely introducing these too ( I spray everyone with sugar syrup to get the colony grooming rather than fighting).


As Rab states in another thread today when assessing what to do there are many alternatives to consider when trying to achieve your goal (when you have understood and defined it),

All the best,
Sam

 

[For want of a better word]

Now I am confused.
Test frame with new eggs taken from queenright colony with a covering of nurse bees is sprayed with sugar water and put into colony that is suspected of being queen less or hoplesslessly queenless

Then what happens

If queenless make queen cells and bring on a new queen ?

If queenright do not make queen cells?

However I have noticed that sometimes bees will jump at the opportunity to make queen cells even though a queen is there, but she is not laying.
Superceedure by proxy?

 

[RoseCottage]

I understand from the original poster that the queen has been removed. Checks will need to be made to ensure no laying workers or queen exist but the introduction of a test frame is aimed at getting some queen cells and will also point to the queen status of the hive.

If the colony is queenless then I would expect some cells and adding some house bees may bolster the colony. This then seems a logical approach. If queen cells are generated from healthy eggs then most likely the recovery process can begin as normal.

Where is the madness? This seems a good first, logical, step to address the OP's situation,

All the best,
Sam

 

[rockdoc]

Thanks Sam for the answer. My strong colony (old queen after AS) are the ones in trouble. It seems the old queen absconded/expired after the AS. Lots of Qc's were produced in the super above. Knocked down to one good one and marked on the frame. That was many weeks ago and yesterday went in to find no brood and more Qc's present. The grubs must be from a worker (scattered about on the comb). So again knocked off all but one un sealed and left again. I fear I may now end up with a scrub queen ( especially as i damaged the rim of the cell as I put the frame back in. Will they repair it? In the meantime I'll try and get a test frame as you suggest. I'm just worried about the gap in bee age now even if a new queen stats laying this week!
Cheers Alasdair