Queenless again!

[Finegan4]

So I have had this hive a year now. All has been fine but 3 weeks ago I found I was queenless. I purchsed a new queen and all was good for two weeks and yesterday they swarmed so now I am queenless again with just half my bees. I have moved a frame of with eggs over from hive 2 (only owned for 1 day from an established bee keeper) in the hope they rear their own queen as can't afford to buy another queen (the hives belong to my school). Am I doing this right? Should I check in 4/5 days to see if queencells are forming?

 

[JamezF]

I'm not sure everything adds up here.

What do you mean by "you found you were queenless"? What evidence led you to believe that?

Did the new queen not start laying before she decamped? It seems very likely if they could have raised another queen cell and swarmed giving the timings you suggest. In which case they're presumably not technically queenless. The new one just isn't fully baked yet.

Have you thought about what conditions may have led to the bees swarming?

James

 

[Finegan4]

Here in the UK we had a sudden rise in temperature and many swarms happened in the are, infact we had mine and another just on our school grounds. I think the hive didn't take to the new queen and she had only been there 2 weeks and that partuclar hive was very busy. I was going to do a split but when I found out I had no queen first time round we didn't. I made a very silly mistake first time and I knocked off the queen cells before I saw the queen - totally a stupid thing to do and I learnt the hard way!

 

[Finegan4]

I'm not sure everything adds up here.

What do you mean by "you found you were queenless"? What evidence led you to believe that?

Did the new queen not start laying before she decamped? It seems very likely if they could have raised another queen cell and swarmed giving the timings you suggest. In which case they're presumably not technically queenless. The new one just isn't fully baked yet.

Have you thought about what conditions may have led to the bees swarming?

James

I had a couple of emergency cells but they did not look good so opted for the option of rearing from an egg. She new queen had hardly laid anything and all i found was a some small larva and couldn't see any eggs. Part of the problem was that I inspected the hive on Friday and knocked off the quuwn cells as she was in there. Then after the swarm I checked to see if they had come from my hives and I found she had gone.

 

[JamezF]

You had emergency cells after you'd introduced the new queen? Makes me wonder even more if the colony wasn't actually queenless to start with, but you haven't said why you thought they were.

James

 

[Curly green finger's]

I’m also scratching my head with this one james.
The time line doesn’t add up how did you assess the first time q- from your first post @Finegan4 how strong was the colony when you found they were supposedly been q- frames of brood/bees etc

 

[Finegan4]

You had emergency cells after you'd introduced the new queen? Makes me wonder even more if the colony wasn't actually queenless to start with, but you haven't said why you thought they were.

James

I have emergency cells 2 weeks after I introduced a new mated queen. I got another bee keeper to check I was queenless the first time just to be sure. The new queen did not seem to lay much at all

 

[Finegan4]

I’m also scratching my head with this one james.
The time line doesn’t add up how did you assess the first time q- from your first post @Finegan4 how strong was the colony when you found they were supposedly been q- frames of brood/bees etc

So first time I was queenless myself and a more experienced bee keeper determined she had been gone about 3 days from the larva. I had lots of sealed brood, a lot of bees and plenty of stores in brood box. We don't know what happened to her but I stupidly had knocked off the queens cells before I found her, totally my error, that's why I got another bee keeper to help me. Then purchased a mated queen and two days later popped her in in a cage. They ate through the fondant and all seemed good. She started to lay but wasn't much. Then about two weeks after adding her (yesterday) she swarmed or at least there was a swarm and she is now gone. I had two emergency cells but the other bee keeper said they didn't look good so we opted for switching a frame from hive two into queenless hive

 

[Curly green finger's]

So first time I was queenless myself and a more experienced bee keeper determined she had been gone about 3 days from the larva. I had lots of sealed brood, a lot of bees and plenty of stores in brood box. We don't know what happened to her but I stupidly had knocked off the queens cells before I found her, totally my error, that's why I got another bee keeper to help me. Then purchased a mated queen and two days later popped her in in a cage. They ate through the fondant and all seemed good. She started to lay but wasn't much. Then about two weeks after adding her (yesterday) she swarmed or at least there was a swarm and she is now gone. I had two emergency cells but the other bee keeper said they didn't look good so we opted for switching a frame from hive two into queenless hive

How many queen cells did you knock down and how many was there ? Also a ruff idea of age and were they capped ?

 

[Finegan4]

How many queen cells did you knock down and how many was there ? Also a ruff idea of age and were they capped ?

This was the first time the hive was queen cell. I honestly don't remember but maybe 3 capped and lots of queen cups but empty. The second time queenless (yesterday) lots of queen cups, all empty and two emergency queen cells but not great looking

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The second time queenless (yesterday) lots of queen cups, all empty and two emergency queen cells but not great looking

what makes you so sure that all of a sudden they're queenless?

 

[Curly green finger's]

This was the first time the hive was queen cell. I honestly don't remember but maybe 3 capped and lots of queen cups but empty. The second time queenless (yesterday) lots of queen cups, all empty and two emergency queen cells but not great looking

I have a hunch they swarmed first time around can you remember where the cells were in the nest were they on the outside frames of brood because to me that would mean supersedure.
What was the brood pattern like when you found the capped cells?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

were they on the outside frames of brood because to me that would mean supersedure

would it?
tell us more...................

 

[enrico]

Have a read through this
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/two-years-in-and-i-think-i-am-queenless.48296/

 

[JamezF]

I'm not sure it's going to be possible to understand what has happened before now. I think there's insufficient information to work with.

Given that a frame of eggs has been added, I'd think I'd give them no more than seven days before inspecting again. If there are queen cells at that time, personally I'd knock all of them down except "the best" one, close up and leave them to get on with things. If there aren't any queen cells then there's likely to be a virgin queen running around somewhere in the hive already, so close up and leave her to get on with mating.

f they swarmed yesterday though, I'd also want to be focusing on why so you understand what measures to take to stop it happening again.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

would it?
tell us more...................

I think he means on the periphery of the brood nest but honestly none of the OP’s posts make much sense.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

all a bit robotic

 

[Moobee]

all a bit robotic

sounds like a load of cobblers to me.