Queen longevity

[DanBee]

By the way, polyunsaturates and monunsaturates are all plant derived, there's no suggestion of "butter", that may be a confusion with polysaturated fats.

Thanks Alan, I was just playing fast&loose with the definition of *saturates just to make the distinction more tangible. I did find the summary almost unreadable at first pass!

 

[drstitson]

so nothing to do with the fact that queens left in mating nucs for 3-4 weeks will have had a better chance of getting decently mated.

obviously lifespan of queen is, aside from other factors (eg premature death), mostly determined by how soon she gets superceded.

 

[Skyhook]

so nothing to do with the fact that queens left in mating nucs for 3-4 weeks will have had a better chance of getting decently mated.

obviously lifespan of queen is, aside from other factors (eg premature death), mostly determined by how soon she gets superceded.

Death is very often an important factor in lifespan On a similar note, supercedure is more likely to be an indication that the queen is coming to the end of her useful life than the cause of it.

 

[alanf]

so nothing to do with the fact that queens left in mating nucs for 3-4 weeks will have had a better chance of getting decently mated.

obviously lifespan of queen is, aside from other factors (eg premature death), mostly determined by how soon she gets superceded.

I think the idea is that queens should be left in the mating nucs for 3 weeks, which will be well after they start laying. You're quite right in that the lifespan of a queen is effectively until supersedure. A long lifespan in itself is of little value if the hive is less productive.

And we still don't know where this 'research' comes from. The original quote is on the-beeman dot co.uk under /celtic-mated-queen-2013-141-p.asp it's similar to a line on Michael Bush's site "For instance, research has shown that a queen that is allowed to lay up until it's 21 days will be a better queen with better developed ovarioles than one that is banked sooner. A longer wait will help even more, but that first 21 days is much more critical." He doesn't say where it's from either. It is advice given in the context of having more time when breeding your own queen than a commercial breeder would have. The same words are repeated on several sites and presentations, some credited to Michael Bush. Ironically, exactly the same words are quoted elsewhere without credit by some commercial breeders to justify higher prices.

Searching for other evidence, this Australian research https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/03-049, found introduction, survival and performance improves with queens aged up to 21 or 28 days after emergence. Perhaps it is a reflection of the Australian climate that with a adequate distribution of drone producing colonies, mating success is assumed by the researchers without being separately noted. Age matters, but whether ageing in a queen bank after mating or continuing in the mating hive makes a difference is inconclusive. On a completely separate issue, the queen introductions were made according to the production apiary practice of removing escorts or not - the age made a difference, the presence of escorts did not.

 

[drstitson]

"On a similar note, supercedure is more likely to be an indication that the queen is coming to the end of her useful life than the cause of it."

but since HM is dependent upon workers for food.....

a poorly mated queen will be disposed of sooner than a good one.

i'm sure a DLQ can be kept alive in a colony with regular boosts of worker brood.

normally a DLQ will eventually die along with her colony.

 

[mbc]

I think the idea is that queens should be left in the mating nucs for 3 weeks, which will be well after they start laying.
If only !
Searching for other evidence, this Australian research https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/03-049, found introduction, survival and performance improves with queens aged up to 21 or 28 days after emergence.

Thank you Alanf for posting that link, I'd been looking to re read that for some time, a bit irrelevant now I have re read it, my virgins took, on average, 28 days before getting mated this season.
I wonder if anyone's done simular research measuring the time between mating and introduction rather than emergence and introduction ?