Queen excluder
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psafloyd
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Parallel.
A fairly pointless but endlessly entertaining question for bee geeks;
-intuition would suggest parallel as the bees would have more access to space with unframed slotted steel excluders + the reinforcing bars on wired excluders would run perpendicular to the frames (doing most good)
-closer investigation reveals a couple of disprovers to the parallel argument, wbc(not square) excluders have the slots running perpendicular and also the excellent Waldron excluders have a wide side -which I've always assumed goes over the lug ends of nationals-making the wires run perpendicular too.
-intuition would suggest parallel as the bees would have more access to space with unframed slotted steel excluders + the reinforcing bars on wired excluders would run perpendicular to the frames (doing most good)
-closer investigation reveals a couple of disprovers to the parallel argument, wbc(not square) excluders have the slots running perpendicular and also the excellent Waldron excluders have a wide side -which I've always assumed goes over the lug ends of nationals-making the wires run perpendicular too.
Poly Hive
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Makes no odds.
PH
PH
MandF
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I go for perpendicular also. There is equal access above the QE from all seams, and/or it might have been something to do with brace comb. I read this somewhere, maybe on here.
Not terribly enlightening I know
But as with most things - having them parallel isnt going to make much, if any, material difference. I used to run mine parallel.
Not terribly enlightening I know
But as with most things - having them parallel isnt going to make much, if any, material difference. I used to run mine parallel.
MandF
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http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12109
http://www.(bbka official website)/members/forum.php?t=3938
http://www.(bbka official website)/members/forum.php?t=3938
I think it does make a difference:
1. with an unframed slotted steel (or plastic )excluder on top of bottom bee space frames (especialy if they are dn5 wide top bars) the bees have far less space to squeese through (plus less ventillation )if the excluders run perpendicular rather than parallel.
2. it makes a big difference to framed wire excluders which way the reinforcing bars go, if they run parallel with the frames then the bees can brace comb them down the entire length of the supporting bars making them harder to remove.
Small differences maybe, but certainly bigger than "no odds" IMO.
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MandF
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Poly Hive
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Having used over the years... and of course this is of no account whatsoever...
Waldron wired, plastic, zinc, pressed steel and had them framed and unframed, and parallel and at right angles, I repeat I find it makes no odds what so ever.
Please yourself if you think it helps but in reality...
It makes no odds.
PH
Waldron wired, plastic, zinc, pressed steel and had them framed and unframed, and parallel and at right angles, I repeat I find it makes no odds what so ever.
Please yourself if you think it helps but in reality...
It makes no odds.
PH
Possibly in your reality it makes no odds but for those of us obsessed with the tiniest of margins it makes odds.
Given, it makes far less odds than framed or unframed, I think its universally acknowledged that its more civilised to used framed excluders, but please dont force your( PH) limited reality on the rest of the beekeeping world, it would make a dour place
Maybe we should get one of the forum physicists to calculate how much less clear area there is with an unframed slotted zinc excluder across the frames rather than parallel.
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Poly Hive
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Not forcing anything on anybody just stating that over many colony years my observations are that it makes no difference that I can see.
Just another "thing" that so many fuss about which is really not important.
PH
Just another "thing" that so many fuss about which is really not important.
PH
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"Please yourself if you think it helps but in reality...
It makes no odds".
Agree
1/2 the time they block up the holes anyway. framed wire ones are easier to use but I use what I have and that's it.
It makes no odds".
Agree
1/2 the time they block up the holes anyway. framed wire ones are easier to use but I use what I have and that's it.
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Look at the IMF site (archived somewhere!)
The German outfit uses wire excluders in conjunction with Poly hives . these excluders are not framed , I have never seen a more efficient beekeeper ,no wasted effort , everything planned down to the finest detail, all ground work done in advance , no messing about by the lady and no hand wringing about framing or no
VM
