Queen excluder on growing colony ?

[Haroldf]

Hi,

Quick question, I have 4 nucs bought in April this year, all hived and growing out gradually, most with a good three /5 frames of BIAS.

I’ve got no previously drawn supers , and was wondering if I should keep the excluder on, or keep it off to allow the faster drawing of the supers ? (Some plastic , some wax foundation).

At the moment, three of the four hives have a small amount of drawn, but it’s around a size of a tea plate diameter within the center of the supers.

I had previously fed them to start drawing them out, just before they started to store the syrup.

Any suggestions? Or even take off the supers for now and syrup feed to build up before the supers go back on ?

Many thanks Harry

 

[jarmo henttu]

Hi,

Quick question, I have 4 nucs bought in April this year, all hived and growing out gradually, most with a good three /5 frames of BIAS.

They realy do not need excluder. Why should they.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

you need them to fill the brood box first before piling loads of space on top - wait until they are on seven or eight frames full of brood, with all the brood frames drawn out before adding a super.

 

[Haroldf]

you need them to fill the brood box first before piling loads of space on top - wait until they are on seven or eight frames full of brood, with all the brood frames drawn out before adding a super.

So Would it be best to remove the supers (and store them uncapped) and excluder, and get the brood box full ? And feed up besides their own forage brought in ?

sounds like I’ve done it arse around ?

 

[Haroldf]

They realy do not need excluder. Why should they.

To have stopped the queen laying in the supers ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So Would it be best to remove the supers (and store them uncapped) and excluder, and get the brood box full ?

definitely, your workforce is not strong enough yet to be rattling around in a vast empty space

 

[Haroldf]

definitely, your workforce is not strong enough yet to be rattling around in a vast empty space

Ok great advice - if the boxes are a good 8 frames full of bees at present, with brood buildup in a Few weeks, do you think that there’s a chance of a single super of honey this year when put back on (of strong enough ) or have I “missed the boat” this year ?

- I’m Living in Betws

 

[pargyle]

Ok great advice - if the boxes are a good 8 frames full of bees at present, with brood buildup in a Few weeks, do you think that there’s a chance of a single super of honey this year when put back on (of strong enough ) or have I “missed the boat” this year ?

- I’m Living in Betws

That question cannot be answered ... it depends upon so many factors - what forage is available is the critical one. The bees will build comb as they need it - you can't force them to do it. It's surprising how fast they will fill out a brood box (and in time a super) when they need the space. I run my hives without queen excluders - they are there for the convenience of the beekeeper - if the queen lays up in the first one it's not a problem - they will back fill with nectar once the brood emerges.

JBM is right though - too much space will discourage them from comb building as they need to keep the colony at temperature - if they have too big a space they can't effectively control the hive temperature.

 

[Haroldf]

That question cannot be answered ... it depends upon so many factors - what forage is available is the critical one. The bees will build comb as they need it - you can't force them to do it. It's surprising how fast they will fill out a brood box (and in time a super) when they need the space. I run my hives without queen excluders - they are there for the convenience of the beekeeper - if the queen lays up in the first one it's not a problem - they will back fill with nectar once the brood emerges.

JBM is right though - too much space will discourage them from comb building as they need to keep the colony at temperature - if they have too big a space they can't effectively control the hive temperature.

Sound advice - thank you !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m Living in Betws

Oh, sorry about that

 

[Haroldf]

Oh, sorry about that

Me to!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

whereabouts in Betws?

 

[jarmo henttu]

To have stopped the queen laying in the supers ?

I let the queen lay so much as it can.

I had a colony, which occupyed 5 frames at the first of May Now it has 4 langstroth boxes. No eccluder.

 

[ericbeaumont]

a chance of a single super of honey this year

Doubt it; strong colonies make honey, as below.

5 frames at the first of May Now it has 4 langstroth boxes

Yours are in second gear, Harold. Think like a bee: on the Solstice of 21 June bees will change tack slowly from expansion to acquisition and look ahead to winter by building stores (that is, after all, the main reason they make honey). Your job is to work with them, so forget your honey this year, a year of poor harvests.

boxes are a good 8 frames full of bees at present, with brood buildup in a Few weeks

Yes, you've missed the boat because your foraging forces are too small, the weather has restricted foraging, and who knows whether you have good queens? Bees produced in a few weeks will be of no use on the main flow, which will have passed by the time they become foragers at 3 weeks. This thread compares nest sizes and puts your colonies in perspective:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/frames-of-bias.57024/#post-908310

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yours are in second gear, Harold. Think like a bee: on the Solstice of 21 June bees will change tack slowly from expansion to acquisition and look ahead to winter by building stores (that is, after all, the main reason they make honey). Your job is to work with them, so forget your honey this year, a year of poor harvests.

that may be what happens on planet London, but even in a good year, the summer flow in Cwmaman will only get going about now and will only peter off as the Royal Welsh is about to start, then a few weeks after that there's a chance of heather, and Himalayan Balsam of course.