Queen cells and splitting

[Nick Lang]

Howdy folks.

So ....I've been following Will Kevans post about his swarm cell issues with great interest....I just went into my hive and there are Queen cells around the bottom area of one of the frames.....there are about three in all..... they're more like large cups than the big shape cells I had last year....but one of them definitely looks like like it has a lavae in.
Didn't see the queen today ...but she was there the last time I did an inspection....the bee hive is absolutely rammed with bees so maybe that why I couldn't see her....so much so I put a super on last week to give them room...which they happily use.

...any way I figure it needs to be split???

....after reading the post by Will and the advice that was given.....am right to find the queen and put her in a nuc with a frame of brood and a frame of stores some blank frames?...and should I leave the Queen cells or cut out all but one?
Does the nuc need to go off site or can it stay here next to the other?

 

[blackcloud]

Try this -it will help you.

The Apiarist

https://www.theapiarist.org/the-nucleus-method/

 

[Nick Lang]

Thank you....that was pretty much my thinking as far as preventing a swarm

 

[blackcloud]

There's no way to guarantee it though -unless they are dead of course.

 

[Swarm]

First, make sure they do actually have charged queen cells.

 

[Nick Lang]

So....I couldn't do the nuc method of splitting....my out apiary was a no go for a couple of reasons.
In the end I had to do a pagden split....everything went well followed the method... it's pretty straightforward.

Now ...it is recommended that sugar solution be fed..... especially to the old colony which is missing it's flying bees....but most advice is vague about how much to feed and how long to feed for?
Ta

 

[elainemary]

So....I couldn't do the nuc method of splitting....my out apiary was a no go for a couple of reasons.
In the end I had to do a pagden split....everything went well followed the method... it's pretty straightforward.

Now ...it is recommended that sugar solution be fed..... especially to the old colony which is missing it's flying bees....but most advice is vague about how much to feed and how long to feed for?
Ta

I’d make sure the parent colony ie the part without the queen has a good frame of stores and a good frame of pollen. Did yours have this? Have you kept a record of what’s in the brood box?

If not, feed but just enough to fill a frame. You need to make sure there is enough space for when the new queen emerges and starts to lay after mating. Should be as all the brood will have emerged by then..

In most areas, May has a strong flow of nectar if weather is sunny and nurse bees will soon get promoted to foragers and start collecting nectar - observe the entrance to see this, more activity soon!

The food combs tends to be at the edges of the brood box so you can quickly check status of food, without disturbing the colony. Just avoid looking from mid day to around 4pm ish when your new queen could be on a mating flight.

Hope this helps, it’s daunting when doing your first few swarm controls but exciting to see a new queen. I’d recommend you keep records so you can look back and learn / reflect from your experience

 

[Nick Lang]

The old hive (the one without the queen) has all full frames bar one that was removed (a brood frame the queen was on)...lots of brood frames.....several honey stores...pollen....etc
The other hive has just one frame of brood (and the queen)...no stores etc ....this was the pagden method as explained to me. With all the swapping of hive locations too etc.
The weather has turned here today.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pagden
Hive with swarm cells moved away
New hive with foundation on old site with a frame of brood and the queen plus supers
Old hive queen cells reduced to one open one frame marked
Go back in a week to remove all other QCs

 

[Erichalfbee]

If the artificial swarm has no supers give it a frame of food or feed it

 

[Nick Lang]

Thanks Eric.....yep...followed pagden method as you have layed out.

Can feed the hive fondant or sugar water.....which is best and what sugar/water ratio is best? Ta

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks Eric

Her name's Dani

Can feed the hive fondant or sugar water.....which is best and what sugar/water ratio is best?

syrup is probably best and easier to assimilate as they will need foragers to go out and bring in water for fondant. use 1:1 although they'll just as readily take heavy syrup

 

[Nick Lang]

Oops.....sorry.....thank you Dani!

...and thank you also....I shall get that syrup on there now

I assume the old hive doesn't need feeding syrup as they have all the stores

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. The old hive is ok.
If there is more than one super you can give one of them to the split

 

[Nick Lang]

Unfortunately....I had no supers.....there was only one on the hive before the split and they had literally only just started to draw comb on one or two of the frames in it......I took it off as there were no stores at all in it....I figured it would be better to push all the bees downwards to the now empty brood box in the colony with the queen???

 

[Zaclangley]

Is it necessary to wait for queen cells to appear before starting the nucleus method?

 

[Swarm]

Is it necessary to wait for queen cells to appear before starting the nucleus method?

No but it's a better method than splitting your queen away and relying on emergency response. The bees decide with swarm cells and lavish attention on them, with emergency cells it's panic mode.

 

[Nick Lang]

Hey everyone.....thanks for all your advice in this....everything seems to be going really well.....just a couple of small questions.
It's day five if the split ....so I went in to both hive to check them before I swap position on day 7 and then leave the 'old' hive.
Two perfect large, sealed up queen cells.
Question one.....and I know this is a debated topic...but leave two cells...or just one???

Also question two....with the swarmed 'new' hive I checked in....the old queen is fine....they are starting drawing comb nicely on the new foundation.....I have a feeder on the top in a super....there are a LOT of bees in the super...warm sunny day today...is this normal....should I remove the feeder...keep feeding....add a super with blank frames???....or do nothing??

Ta muchly for your help

 

[Zaclangley]

With the nucleus method is it ok to do it early in the morning or is there a better time of day?

 

[Nick Lang]

....another thought.....as my 'old' hive has two queen cells in there...and they are on two different frames....could I remove one of the frames of brood and a frame of stores and put it in a nuc...leaving all the other frames in the old hive???....Or would that deplete the 'old' hive too much???