Queen cell in recently hived nuc

[Fatbee]

Hi everybody.
I hived a nuc on May 26th during the really hot week we had. I left it 6 days to check that the Queen was laying OK after her transit - which she was with eggs visible and plenty of new food stores coming in. There was also much to my surprise a queen cell with larvae in. Are anybody else seeing queen cells in recently hived nucs? They have plenty of space with 5 frames of foundation to develop the brood box so I'm a little puzzled - she is a new queen this year.

I reluctantly removed the QC but need some advice for when I inspect again hopefully 7 days later this Friday (although weather not looking good). If they have built fresh QCs is it best to do an AS - taking the queen and a frame or 2 back in to the nuc - leaving what's left to raise a new queen. My worry is whether there would be enough bees to make this viable?

I'm hoping that they may have settled in and no further QCs will be seen - the nuc was pretty full so they may have had the leftover urge to swarm from this situation - but I fear that this may be wishful thinking!

Your thoughts would be great to a relatively new beekeeper who thought nucs were the easy way in to beekeeping

 

[HollyBee]

I am also new but sure someone with more experience will be along soon. Was there just one QC? Could it have been a supersedure cell rather than a swarm cell?

 

[oliver90owner]

Likely a typical nuc thrown together on the day?

A good nuc should be the mother of at least some of the workers, let alone some eggs being hers.

May just be a damaged queen, but the above is common, I believe. If damaged she will be replaced, eventually. If a swiftly produced nuc, then things may settle and she will be accepted, especially when her brood emerges.

 

[Fatbee]

Thanks - following the supersedure suggestion I have done some more research and certainly sounds feasible although I'm pretty confident that it was a good quality nuc from a reputable supplier producing nucs with brood from the laying queen only...but with bees one can never know for sure.
To be honest getting the first step in to beekeeping is the most difficult. There are very few in my local association able to supply nucs and those that do you have to place a bit of trust in and hope their reputation is good for a reason.
Will have to see what is happening at next inspection but if there is a similar cell it sounds to me that it may be best to leave it and let the bees decide what's best for them. I'm of the belief that if you keep ripping down QCs it will just hack them off and they will either jump ship anyway or become a bit lacklustre in performance.

 

[rae]

Where was the cell? Swarm cells tend to be at the bottom, supercedure in the middle. We are getting a lot of supercedure, especially in swarms. Swarm is hived, starts laying and drawing comb, then 2 weeks later, queen cell. Could be the awful weather means that mating has been poor.

 

[Stromnessbees]

contamination by pesticides?

Where was the cell? Swarm cells tend to be at the bottom, supercedure in the middle. We are getting a lot of supercedure, especially in swarms. Swarm is hived, starts laying and drawing comb, then 2 weeks later, queen cell. Could be the awful weather means that mating has been poor.

You also need to consider an underlying pesticide problem:

In areas where neonicotinoid pesticides are used as seed treatments, e.g. on oilseed rape, the sublethal doses of the toxin will lead to underdeveloped queens.

The hive bees notice that the compromised queens are not fully developed and supercede.

In those areas of Britain where these seed treatments are common it's becoming increasingly difficult to have productive colonies, as they are superceding too frequently.

What's the forage like in your area?

 

[Fatbee]

The cell was on the bottom of the frame.

Lot of OSR round so good chance they could have had some exposure. Some farmers I know are really conscientious about bees but unfortunately the cheaper sprays tend to contain the more nasty stuff and like with everything some people always choose price.

This point about the bees picking up a potentially inferior queen is very interesting. She's been laying but for how long? Bees know best so if another cell appears I think I will let them raise it and remove the current queen to a nuc and see how they both fare and then look to recombine with the stronger colony at the end of summer. Does that sound sensible?

 

[rae]

In areas where neonicotinoid pesticides are used as seed treatments, e.g. on oilseed rape, the sublethal doses of the toxin will lead to underdeveloped queens.

Google turns up no relevant hits. Any data to support the idea? We have OSR in the area, but the weather was so awful that they hardly got on to it. I know the farmer well, and will ask him about see treatments.

I'm more inclined to believe it is due to the erratic weather leading to poor mating outcomes.

I think I will let them raise it and remove the current queen to a nuc and see how they both fare and then look to recombine with the stronger colony at the end of summer. Does that sound sensible?

Right answer - you are covered both ways.

 

[Stromnessbees]

The fact that it is a single queen cell indicates supercedure rather than swarming.

With neonicotinoids on oilseed rape it's usually seed dressings, not spraying. From the seed dressing the toxin is spread throughout the plant and comes through in the nectar and pollen, that's why it's called a systemic pesticide.

It's not cheap stuff either, the farmer pays a lot for these pesticides, and the corporations are not keen for us beekeepers to find out the real effects on the bees and on the environment.

 

[itma]

Hi everybody.
I hived a nuc on May 26th during the really hot week we had. ... They have plenty of space with 5 frames of foundation to develop the brood box so I'm a little puzzled - she is a new queen this year.
...

*Foundation* doesn't count as 'space' until it has been drawn to comb.

From which, two considerations
1/ What was the availability of laying space (empty cells) on drawn comb?
2/ Have they drawn much/any of the new foundation? You might be better only giving them 2 frames of foundation, bookending the brood nest. And backstop the colony with a dummy board. The bees can then concentrate on drawing wax in a warm place - next to some brood. A hive filled out with foundation is a large empty cold space - not ideal for wax drawing.

Do you know any local beeks with a spare mating hive? Its a mini-nuc where a queen (or QC) can be raised by a very few bees (a cupful), and often known by brand name - Apidea and Keiller are common. Probably best to get help loading it up.
That would enable you to preserve the option of the new queen, while you determine whether they are thinking of swarming due to lack of laying space or considering supercedure because they aren't satisfied with the existing queen (for whatever reason, even if she is a youngster).

 

[Fatbee]

Just wanted to show the value of this forum - people were spot on about supersedure. Opened up today and the marked queen that came in the nuc was nowhere to be seen but another queen was present looking busy on a frame that contained loads of eggs. There was hatching brood on another frame, loads of larvae on another and food stores looking good and the workers generally have drawn out the foundation well considering the bad weather this week. It sounds corny but they just looked a much happier bunch of bees this week.
What doesn't add up to me is the timing with quantity of eggs - I do wonder whether this virgin queen was present when the nuc came - we just didn't notice her because there was a marked queen.
Anyway - not going to worry because all looks good - so thanks everybody for being so willing to comment on posts!