Promoting a nuc...

[Jambo]

Hello

I split one of my hives about 6 weeks ago and made a nuc. Queen emerged, mated and started laying quickly, all good. They're in a Paynes poly nuc, 6 frames, integral feeder at the side.

The nuc is really quite busy, I had a quick peep in last night and it's bursting with bees. The question is whether I should leave them in the nuc for the winter and hive them in the spring, or put them into a wooden National now.

They would be cosier in the nuc I expect, but if I put them into the full hive they might be able to build up some more numbers before winter, AND they can draw some comb which gets them ahead for the spring.

It is my first year at this so I don't yet have a feel for when the queens slow down and the nest starts to contract...

I have a whole new National hive so equipment/cost isn't an issue.

IF the advice is to keep them in the poly nuc, should I invest in an eke or a super for it in order to make space for more bees and some fondant?

 

[BMH]

They wont expand now they will contract.

Keep them in the nuc and keep an eye on them in spring.

 

[Curley]

I agree - keep them in the nuc.
You will need to keep a close eye on them vis a viz stores. Some fondant on all the time is probably a good idea. An eke could be useful or you could use the side feeder for the fondant - put the qx bit in so that the queen doesn't lay in there if they build some comb. Probably best avoided for liquid feeding - use an eke and a little rapid feeder or similar.
Consider making a nuc cosy out of celotex and perhaps a bit of correx under the mesh floor to keep them a bit cosier. Come the spring they could be bursting with bees so more careful observation then and be ready to hive them sooner rather than later.

 

[Eyeman]

Just feed the nucs fondant when they are getting light. Slap a piece in a plastic bag over the feeder hole in the crown board. All my crown boards have 20mm built in ekes on one side for feeding

 

[Hebeegeebee]

How many frames of brood do you have in the nuc?

A small colony will try to expand, even now.
For me, a good nuc might well be moved to some 8 frame wooden or 8 frame polynucs before the end of September. However in Aberdeenshire, I would not assume you can do that.

 

[MartinL]

You really need to be looking in the daytime.
It's not a matter of how many bees there are now, but how many there will be!

• How much brood is there?

• Is HM still laying well?

• What's the local weather/forrage going to be like over the next 6-8 weeks?

Some may be preparing to combine smaller colonies ready for winter, (if we ever get one)!

 

[Clemcook]

My bees are definitely not slowing down, I had to add more space yesterday as she had started to lay in the super frAmes, this hive is a mega hive, in the spring it will be split for
Sure. If your queen is prolific like mine is the nuc won't be enough, also some fairly good weather down here in the south.

 

[amigadave]

I was in exactly this situation a week ago, with a rapidly-expanding colony in a Paynes poly nuc, and added a brood extension (an extra 6 brood frames with foundation) onto the top of the nuc. I wanted to move them straight into a poly hive, but I have been waiting 3 months for the brood box!

I get a lot of Himalayan balsam where I live, and ivy should start flowering soon, but I won't be inspecting them until the weekend to see how they have progressed. The weather has been good and there is plenty of activity at the entrance - so I am hopeful that they have expanded further and drawn out several frames. As others have said, depends a lot on how your forage and weather is looking for the next month or two.

 

[Swarm]

Put them in a dummied down full hive with some feed to get comb drawn so they have somewhere to put their stores. I'm doing exactly that tomorrow.

 

[Swarm]

I keep reading 'if we get a Winter'. We've never had severe Winters and they are pretty much the same now as they were when I was a kid, some mild, some cold. We've had two particularly cold Winters this decade alone (2010, 2012) with record temps and high snowfall.

Enough of these 'when I were a lad' comments.

 

[Jambo]

No simple answer as usual I guess! Adding a level to the nuc box would be the best solution indeed, but I don't have that option without spending yet more cash...

My new hive is still flat packed - I will build it up and then do a more in depth inspection of the nuc to see how much brood there really is - I fully expect 5 frames packed. She's a daughter of one of ITLD's 2016 queens which I think are up there on the prolific-ness scale. A quick peep in this morning and quite a few bees hanging out at the top of the (empty) feeder, perhaps an indication of a lack of space, I could really do without them building comb in there.

 

[Poly Hive]

Just a general comment but there is really no need to make a cosy for a poly nuc as after all they are already in one!

PH

 

[Millet]

Last week all my Queens where still laying, two are in full hives and one is in a double six frame Nuc which has 12 frames inside, i will be ordering a Lyson/Abelo brood box for them on Monday and a full poly hive from the same fellow for my other colony that is on brood + half in a wooden hive, to save faffing on with cosies.

 

[Swarm]

Mine have now moved out of their poly nuc and into a swienty national, dummied down to allow another frame. Feeder above and a Balsam flow, away to go.

 

[Jambo]

I got the opinion of an experienced keeper at the weekend while I went through them, 5 frames of brood as anticipated, and loads of bees, even though it was good flying weather. We both agreed these need hived quite urgently.

Fast forward to tonight - I finish building the new hive shortly before sunset, knowing the forecast for tomorrow was a bit iffy I thought I'd have a go at the transfer. What a mistake.

Moved the nuc to the side, put the new hive where the nuc was, opened the nuc and moved a frame out. It was so packed with bees I probably hurt a few removing the frame, they went bananas. Got the frame (mostly if not all stores) into the hive, stepped back to evaluate as my suit is getting stings all over...

The gap the frame left in the nuc was now full of bees - it would be carnage trying to put it back in. But I couldn't carry on either, bees going ballistic and smoke was having no effect.

So, one frame of stores plus the bees that were on it all closed up in the new hive in the old location. Nuc closed up and moved about 10 ft away. My hope is that tomorrow the flying bees will hive themselves, and then in the afternoon I can have a shot at moving them again.

Argh. Not my finest hour, but you live and learn. In hindsight these should have been hived a while ago - or frames of brood donated to another colony maybe.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Last week all my Queens where still laying, two are in full hives and one is in a double six frame Nuc which has 12 frames inside, i will be ordering a Lyson/Abelo brood box for them on Monday and a full poly hive from the same fellow for my other colony that is on brood + half in a wooden hive, to save faffing on with cosies.

I've got an Abelo Lyson hive this year to try out. I've taken the advice to apply vaseline to the joining surfaces and I also applied it to the frame slide rails. Seems to be working and should extend the life of the hive.

 

[JWF]

I got the opinion of an experienced keeper at the weekend while I went through them, 5 frames of brood as anticipated, and loads of bees, even though it was good flying weather. We both agreed these need hived quite urgently.

Fast forward to tonight - I finish building the new hive shortly before sunset, knowing the forecast for tomorrow was a bit iffy I thought I'd have a go at the transfer. What a mistake.

Moved the nuc to the side, put the new hive where the nuc was, opened the nuc and moved a frame out. It was so packed with bees I probably hurt a few removing the frame, they went bananas. Got the frame (mostly if not all stores) into the hive, stepped back to evaluate as my suit is getting stings all over...

The gap the frame left in the nuc was now full of bees - it would be carnage trying to put it back in. But I couldn't carry on either, bees going ballistic and smoke was having no effect.

So, one frame of stores plus the bees that were on it all closed up in the new hive in the old location. Nuc closed up and moved about 10 ft away. My hope is that tomorrow the flying bees will hive themselves, and then in the afternoon I can have a shot at moving them again.

Argh. Not my finest hour, but you live and learn. In hindsight these should have been hived a while ago - or frames of brood donated to another colony maybe.

That's a mistake you won't make again

Let us know how you get on - and check that single frame to make sure that there are no emergency queen cells drawn on it during the period that they will have been queenless.

 

[Jambo]

That's a mistake you won't make again



Let us know how you get on - and check that single frame to make sure that there are no emergency queen cells drawn on it during the period that they will have been queenless.

Yes indeed, I was just starting to get confident with them as well! I don't know why it didn't occur to me as soon as I opened the nuc that things would be better if I waited for flying weather...

Yep I'll have a check for Queen cells, thanks.

 

[Swarm]

Haven't you read posts by Finman lately?
"In the evening all bees are bad."
The answer to the defensiveness was opening them just before dusk, in retrospect the few hours til the next day wasn't going to hurt and even if it was pouring with rain, it would not have been as bad.
Hope all goes well.

 

[Jambo]

Yes rookie mistake! And thanks.

Leather gloves saved me from a lot of stings, took me a while to pick them all out of the gloves though!