Production hives and swarm control

[jeff33]

So far I seem to have had quite a frustrating season with keeping my 10 production hives together probably increased by the early spring. I have lost 1 swarm and only have 3 production hives that have not attempted to swarm as yet. I demaree these hives for the second time this season 2 weeks ago. The others either on double 14x12 or double BB have attempted to swarm at the start of June and are now working on a 2 hives vertical system which will impact on honey production. Last year in comparison only 2/6 production hives attempted to swarm.

I have been on the ball to ensure the BB were not honey bound giving plenty of space for the queen to lay. I would be interested to know how others have manged this year and if anyone has any tips to further manage those big hives?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Demaree and keep that Demaree rolling rather than taking it down and having to do it again?

 

[jeff33]

Thanks Dani, I usually try to keep them rolling until the nectar takes over the BB. Those that had a 2nd round laid-up another 8 frames in a matter of 2-3 weeks.

 

[Tim.S]

I run out apiaries of 10 hives which works well for me with the available forage at my sites. I have done vastly better with my brood management this year which is key for me, 7 day visits early in the swarm season and now fortnightly and I re-queen most each year.

Give them room to lay, double brood if they need it, give them a couple of frames of foundation as well and move brood around between the boxes to even the sizes up. If too much brood as there was this year it comes back home for nucs. Once the flow has started in earnest if they haven't tried to swarm by then they seem to calm down and are much less likely to try, there will always be one however! I have only had one hive at one out apiary try to swarm on me this year so far but I had my doubts about her early on so she has gone.

Mind you having thoughts that I have cracked it this year probably means they are going to bite me in the bum sooner or later!

 

[Finman]

.make the artificial swarm when you see queen cells. That is a good way to stop swarming fever.

If bees have healthy swarming genes, no extra room will save you from swarming.

 

[gmonag]

I have been on the ball to ensure the BB were not honey bound giving plenty of space for the queen to lay. I would be interested to know how others have manged this year and if anyone has any tips to further manage those big hives?

You could use the Rose Hive Method. No chance of restricting the queen at all, as she has the run of the hive.

 

[Swarm]

My mate hates double brood and avoids it if possible. He takes the view that at least on single, it is earlier in the year with less impact on the honey crop.

 

[Swarm]

You could use the Rose Hive Method. No chance of restricting the queen at all, as she has the run of the hive.

Did much the same with standard nats this season. Three brood boxes, queen not restricted, found a charged cell first week in May.

 

[jeff33]

It looks as if I need to be more on the ball with my swarm prevention methods. The dble brood seemed to work last year but not this year. Queens have always around 4 frames to lay in on my dble set-up. I try to not remove brood frames throughout the season, maybe I should take a couple now and again?

 

[Cuckmere couple]

i have had had a good number of colonies on double brood start swarm preps early on in spring....and then, when the queen has emerged and laying....theyve produced swarm cells again...its felt crazy

picking up lessons from above, i need to be smarter at moving brodd to balance and to ensure brood frames arent honey bound.

I had been removing 1 BIA and replace with undrawn mid nest hoping that would suppress swarm instinct

but i like Finamn's 'swarm fever' language, i think taking the Q into a nuc with a few frames of brood hasnt killed the urge when there have been so many bees for a new q to emerge into in the double brood.

 

[GuyNir]

I run all single brood, so accept the increased risk. I try to keep ahead of the bees, adding supers from early on + moving brood frames from strong colonies. This with regular checks reduce swarming. Charged cells mean the Q is moving house to a nuc and cells reduced to 1-2. No active swarms so far this year, with about half the colonies needed to remove the Q (between May and now).

 

[gmonag]

Did much the same with standard nats this season. Three brood boxes, queen not restricted, found a charged cell first week in May.

Bees still swarm from Rose Hives of course, but my comment was with reference to being honeybound.

 

[jeff33]

It doesn't seem to have been too bad for honeybound bbs this year as we have had some bad weather allowing bees to sort it out. If I get frames like that I either turn the BB as a super and put a new one with a mix of drawn frames and foundation or extract if I am stuck for frames.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I am beginning to think Nationals are the problem

Same thing (as OP) with me. Double-brood Nats Demarreed and kept Demareed. Two made swarm preps and had to be ASed and the third had supersedure cells up top which I missed two and ended up with dead mother Q AND a cast swarm which I caught and united over. Live and learn. But elsewhere I manage a Commercial box with a prodigious Q. I have put a Nat super under the QE and that has given the needed space. But no signs - hah! JINX! - of swarming and a prodigious tower of the sort I expect / hope for.

The differences I can think of to double brood are fewer horizontal gaps and less manipulation. But I am noting carefully as the difference is huge and if not 100% more honey, certainly 50% than the ASed (etc) colonies. And no box full of brood honey, which I hate about Demaree.

 

[Finman]

My mate hates double brood and avoids it if possible. He takes the view that at least on single, it is earlier in the year with less impact on the honey crop.

I use 3 langstroth brood and no excluders.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I run all single brood, so accept the increased risk. I try to keep ahead of the bees, adding supers from early on + moving brood frames from strong colonies. This with regular checks reduce swarming. Charged cells mean the Q is moving house to a nuc and cells reduced to 1-2. No active swarms so far this year, with about half the colonies needed to remove the Q (between May and now).

this is interesting and very similar to what i have done this year on double brood

what has surprised me though is swarm cells within 2-3 weeks of the new queen emerging and laying...this is my point about whether moving the q and leaving bees and brood hasnt dealt with the 'swarm fever' Finman talks of

new queens are emerging to quite large colonies and then laying fast and swarm preps again (not helped by lots of honey in brood frames, so making more room is clearly a learning for me this year)

 

[Murox]

I use 3 langstroth brood and no excluders.

Are you meaning the Deep frames - 482mm X 231mm (19” x 9-1/8”) or do you use the medium frames – 482mm X 158mm ?

 

[Swarm]

I use 3 langstroth brood and no excluders.

You missed my point, which was that swarming will most likely take place later in the season which is not wanted. If they are going to prepare to swarm, better earlier than later.

 

[jeff33]

I certainly did a lot of my manipulations (demaree) very early in the season, last week of April, 1st week of May which is a good 3 weeks earlier than usual. This is probably why I am struggling to keep them together now.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I run all single brood, so accept the increased risk. I try to keep ahead of the bees, adding supers from early on + moving brood frames from strong colonies. This with regular checks reduce swarming. Charged cells mean the Q is moving house to a nuc and cells reduced to 1-2. No active swarms so far this year, with about half the colonies needed to remove the Q (between May and now).

An excellent strategy BUT it costs honey, no doubt. I think the OP's q (or discussion point) is how do we avoid that.