Problems mating queens

[Somerford]

Morning all

After doing half a dozen splits from a couple of super strong colonies who where ready to swarm 2 weeks ago (multiple QC in both) I split them both 3 ways.

Out of them all, only 1 has a laying queen now and the queens have been hatched at least 12 days as they were almost hatching when I split them.

I've not encountered such a problem getting queens mated before. Plenty of drones around, and the weather has been great.

Thoughts ??

To add insult to injury the LASI queen I installed in an Apidea around the same time has also failed to mate.

Maybe I should just buy mated queens and bank them until they're needed but I would rather grow my own.

Thoughts ???

KR

S

 

[Motobiman]

Newbie so just an observation.

Aren't queens only mated at 27 days of age or more?

Too soon maybe?

 

[Finman]

.
Mating needs 2-3 days non windy sunny days, and temp over 20 C.

Quickest time table is that queen lays 10 days after emerging. It starts at the age of 7 days.

But if it starts at 10 th day, it needs 2-3 days for mating.

.

.

 

[Jthebeek]

It can take 20 days to mate. Then another 20 to begin laying. In my experience if they have not begun laying after 30 days I'll add a queen cell and check daily. if the Queen begins to lay remove the cell and if not allow the new queen to emerge and start again

 

[B+.]

Thoughts ???

The presence of drones in itself is not a sign they are ready to mate.

They may be too young to mate or they may have no sperm due to poor nutrition or cool weather during development.

 

[B+.]

Aren't queens only mated at 27 days of age or more?

Usually 6-20. The longer they go without mating, the less likely they are to mate at all

 

[Motobiman]

So if she emerges on day 16 after the egg is laid she can mate 6 days after that, ie at 22 days?
That's 5 days earlier than my Haynes-manual-of-everything-to-do-with-bees, says.
Can you confirm? Thanks.

 

[B+.]

So if she emerges on day 16 after the egg is laid she can mate 6 days after that, ie at 22 days?
That's 5 days earlier than my Haynes-manual-of-everything-to-do-with-bees, says.
Can you confirm? Thanks.

Correct. Queens are sexually mature 6 days after emergence (drones take longer).
Sue Cobeys video presents a comparison of naturally mated and instrumentally inseminated queens but also talks about treatment of the queen https://youtu.be/MBFvAnFa5B4?t=2m44s

 

[Hivemaker.]

Have had queens out on mating flights four days after emerging from their cells.

 

[B+.]

Have had queens out on mating flights four days after emerging from their cells.

Quite possible: 16 days is an average emergence and depends on temperature/humidity.
I think the studies quoted mean maturity. There will always be a distribution around the mean but 5 day maturity is close enough for most people. I wait until at least day 6 for II to give a margin of error on maturity.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Have had queens out on mating flights four days after emerging from their cells.

With the speed some are getting mated this year I swear they're doing it whilst still in the cell!!

 

[Finman]

Have had queens out on mating flights four days after emerging from their cells.

I do not mind about exceptions or records. I wait up to 10 th day. If some one is speeder, I do not mind.

Even queens do not emerge during same day.

Speed and speed. The whole queen rearing process is long from grafting to laying. Two days here or there means nothing. And then the queen spends its time in the small nuc.
.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Have had queens out on mating flights four days after emerging from their cells.

Would that have been from a Apidea type mini-nuc. or from a nuc. with a few full sized frames?
We found here that the former were about five days ahead of the latter. I often wondered about the pay back!

 

[mbc]

I try avoid checking for laying in nucs for three weeks after emergence, anything earlier just makes for unnecessary repeat visits in my experience.

 

[Finman]

.
There should be nothing odd in queen mating. At least I cannot imagine.
Only weather disturbes mating. Lack of drones never.


If all virgins act in same way, it is bad weather then.

So, just wait...

.

 

[Finman]

.
I have seen, how the queen needed 4 days to mate.

I opened the nuc, and the queen had the mating thread in her abdomen.
After that there were two rainy days. On fourth day the queen had the thread again in abdomen.

.

 

[Finman]

I try avoid checking for laying in nucs for three weeks after emergence, anything earlier just makes for unnecessary repeat visits in my experience.

I look the queens quite often. If somebody dies, it dies. I admit that they sometimes ball the virgin.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I try avoid checking for laying in nucs for three weeks after emergence, anything earlier just makes for unnecessary repeat visits in my experience.

I usually check them around two weeks, if the weather has been good enough.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Would that have been from a Apidea type mini-nuc. or from a nuc. with a few full sized frames?

Neither, kind of in between the two different sizes.

 

[Nige.Coll]

drones are fertile 2 weeks after emerging but they have to fly to make this happen.
queens are ready for mating 4 days after and up to 4 weeks after emergence.
after 4 weeks the queens can go stale. higher risk of being a drone layer etc.
they are reluctant to mate with drones from their own genetic pool and if they do the eggs are eaten and it shows up as a crappy brood pattern.
it takes a while but it seems to take forever.

If it doesn't work out then buy some queens because splitting the colonies so much has rendered them incapable of raising a decent queen if these swarm cells fail, You simply don't have a colony with the right amount of nurse bees to feed them for a good queen. if no queens present ofc.
myself i would have split them vertically then put a sealed queen cell with a minimal amount of bees into a nuc and left the two colonies mainly intact just incase it all went tits up. with a vertical split you know the bees added to the nuc are young bees and the main force is continuing doing the bee thing.
other hives drones are what you need not your own.

bit drunk so sry for waffling