Prevention or control?

[Tomo]

Hi.Last year I was determined not to miss any swarms and kept a close eye on both of my over-wintered colonies (with Queens from the previous year). Then one weekend of heavy rain, unable to inspect and hey presto they were off! As there is no guarantee of a repeat, what do you do in your apiary to prevent absentees? I know it's impossible to stop every swarm, but it would be nice to feel I have at least a half chance. Does everyone Demaree or AS? Thanks.

 

[MartinL]

My job means I can miss the opportunities to inspect.

Added to that I have colonies on my allotment, in a field above the Cricket pitch and on my roof at home. my "swarm prevention" can be a tad erratic bordering on ambivalent!

One thing that seems to work is I place Nukes as lures in the vicinity, the three locations are very near to a straight line over @ 800 meters, with my house in the middle.

Also in this line is the village pub with 3 feral colonies in chimneys and loft, so I blame that for the occasional swarm too!

Main Swarm prevention / increase is to take frames with QCs and put them in a 3 frame nuke then let them fight it out. Not the text book method, but has worked for me, (I do have plenty of nuke boxes by the way). Also means I have the odd weak nukes to combine in the late Autumn (+ frozen queens for the lures the next year).

I'll take a deep breath now and await the inevitable.

 

[Poly Hive]

One does what works.

The text book answer is to clip and to inspect on a rolling 10 days which in turn does not help if you are away for three weeks.

One help is to have a trusted friend inspect for you.

Another is to Nuc the queens until you return, but there is of course the risk of virgins running about and sheesh can they sprint!

The last resort is a shed load of bait hives.

None of the above are particularly efficient so my answer was not to take holidays during the swarming period. Not too good for relationships byt VERY effective.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

Another thing. If the bees need looking in then do it. If it's raining then get a buddy to hold a fishing brolly for you. Commercial beekeepers work their hives irrespective of the weather. Oh and PH is right. No holidays in the swarming season unles you have a good bee sitters

 

[Swarm]

Rainy inspections is the bit they don't tell you about when you do your beginners course.

 

[pargyle]

Rainy inspections is the bit they don't tell you about when you do your beginners course.

Yes ... mine are often a bit tetchy if it is going to rain .. as the hives are in the garden I tend to shut them up and try another day.

 

[alldigging]

Rainy inspections is the bit they don't tell you about when you do your beginners course.

What you should probably be told is
(a) have all your kit ready to go
(b) be prepared to go and do it as soon as the first bit of sun arrives/it stops raining/the hurricane finishes
(c) have everything you need to do your preferred anti-swarm measures ready and waiting
(d) don't put it off til tomorrow just because the forecast says it'll be nicer.

 

[pargyle]

...
(d) don't put it off til tomorrow just because the forecast says it'll be nicer.

Been there ... and lost a swarm ... but - if it is going to be better weather then they are probably not going to swarm if it's tipping down with rain or blowing a hooley ... so, you do have the option to put it off until the following morning - but - given a break in the weather and at the height of the swarm season - they will be off !

The key is very much to know the queen rearing cycle, note the days you have left once a queen cell is charged and be ready to do an AS ..

It's all in here . God Bless Wally Shaw ... been linked many times but it really is the swarm cell bible, ignore it at your peril:

http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf

 

[alldigging]

Another Wally Shaw one to read is
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Swarm Control: An Apiary Guide (Wally Shaw)

Some great documents here
http://www.wbka.com/library/library-documents/

Heather Honey: Beekeeping With Altitude (Peter McFadden)
Swarm Control: An Apiary Guide (Wally Shaw)
Comb Managment (WBKA/WAG)
Feeding Bees (WAG)
Advantages Of Open Mesh Floors (Wally Shaw)
Design & Construction Of Open Mesh Floors (Wally Shaw)
Dealing With A Colony That's ReQueening (Wally Shaw)
How To Win Prizes At Honey Shows (Peter McFadden)
The Many Uses Of A Snelgrove Board (Wally Shaw)
Snelgrove Board Design & Construction (Wally Shaw)
There Are Queen Cells In My Hive (WAG)
Making Increase (Wally Shaw)
Simple Hive Record Card
locally Adapted Bees (Wally Shaw)

 

[bontbee]

The Curry method of swarm control.

T I Curry of Penrith describes his (I assume) method of swarm control which is designed to let you go on holiday for 6 weeks during the summer, without losing a swarm. It also, he says, provides a new queen for whatever purpose, provides a strong enough colony to gather blossom and to produce extremely strong colonies of foragers for heather.

Has anyone tried it?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The Curry method of swarm control.

T I Curry of Penrith describes his (I assume) method of swarm control which is designed to let you go on holiday for 6 weeks during the summer, without losing a swarm. It also, he says, provides a new queen for whatever purpose, provides a strong enough colony to gather blossom and to produce extremely strong colonies of foragers for heather.

Has anyone tried it?

No - but I've read his book -'Fairies at the Bottom of my Garden'

 

[Tomo]

Thanks for all of your replies, however, I was after your opinions on whether you Demaree or another method (prevention) or, if you AS i.e. after finding swarm cells(control). I didn't mention going on holiday! That was from another reply. Do you carry out some form of swarm prevention before the bees even show signs of swarm preparation?Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you carry out some form of swarm prevention before the bees even show signs of swarm preparation?Thanks.

That will be Demarree - yes I do. Sometimes you get there too late so then I perform an A/S

 

[bontbee]

No - but I've read his book -'Fairies at the Bottom of my Garden'

So is that a no from everyone else then?!

Has anyone else heard of it? (Not counting any googlers, since I posted the question!)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So is that a no from everyone else then?!

Has anyone else heard of it? (Not counting any googlers, since I posted the question!)

obviously quickly faded into obscurity- if the method was any good it would be bandied about more than Demarree or Pagden I'd have thought

 

[bontbee]

You're right, it can't be the bees' knees of swarm control, but I did think that with all the accumulated knowledge on this forum someone might have dabbled with it - or at least heard of it!!

 

[BeeJayBee]

So is that a no from everyone else then?!

Has anyone else heard of it? (Not counting any googlers, since I posted the question!)

I've never used one but did remember seeing a mention on the forum some time ago (2014).

It might be worth messaging VM, to see if he can tell you more because ...

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=406500&postcount=9

I've watched Ivor Curry(definately no pun intended) demonstrate his method .
He is a practical beekeeper who uses this method , he maintains you can safely leave the bee for 6 weeks after doing the manipulation, he always places the board entrance on the same elevation as the bottom box entrance and swears he"s never had a Queen returning from a mating flight using the wrong entrance .
He reunites ready for the heather (his main crop) .In order to have the bees draw and fill sections to the corners he reduces the number in each crate and utilises the wide spacers. this forces the bees to use all available spaces .
His success is the result of big colonies plus a this years Queen at heather time !
VM ​

 

[Quis Custodiet]

.................................someone might have dabbled with it - or at least heard of it!!

I found some reference to it some years ago and googled it. That is as far as the matter went, I have not tried the method, nor am I aware of knowing anyone who has done so. But there is no reason why it should not be attempted, if one wished to experiment.
While we are on the subject, has anyone encountered a "Shepherd Board"? It is some type of split / swarm board.

 

[oliver90owner]

I didn't mention going on holiday!-

One has to accept that beekeeping is not just a ''weekend'' hobby. Signs of impending swarming are there to be observed. Leaving them two weeks between inspections just because it is raining is an excuse, not a reason for missing swarm preparations.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I occasionally get egg on my face with this but MUCH less than half the time. "This" being that it never rains all day on these islands. "Rain at seven, dry by eleven" sort of thing. But, my bees are in my garden, which is a huge advantage for that approach.

<ADD> Oh and, to answer the question, I Demareed one of my colonies the last couple of years and it did very well but it is a LOT of manipulation with attendant risks and costs. Another, swarmy, bunch, I ASed successfully (reactively, rather than the proactive Demaree) and on balance prefer it. On the 80:20 principle, tipping up the top box of a double brood is not that big a deal even in a raging torrent, when "updating" a Demaree might be quite impossible.