Post Swarm Advice Please

[Shaaag]

Hi Guys,

A few days ago I tried to prevent a swarm by splitting 4 frames out my single hive (which had swarm cells and was going like a train) and placing them in a new hive of 5 frames together with some foam insulation board to restrict the space they needed to manage. I took the recommended mixture of eggs, larvae and capped brood and luckily all but a couple of swarm cells were on those frames. I removed the two remaining swarm cells from the original hive and replaced the frames that were taken with fresh foundation.

I'm guessing I did this all a little too late as the little tinkers went and swarmed today anyway.


The retrieve was a little fraught as they landed in the corner of a lean-to and I had to improvise a bee vac to get them into a nuc box.

So, from having 1 hive, I now have the original split and swarmed hive, a 5 frame split with QCs and the swarm in a nuc box.

To complicate things, before I did the split I couldn't find HM, so I double checked the frames I took to make sure she wasn't on the ones I transferred to the new hive. I also went back through both hives after the split to re-look for her, with no luck.

I currently have the new 5 frame hive under lockdown (grass in entrance) to give them time to settle and the swarmed bees are similarly under lockdown in an empty nuc box while I decide how to deal with them (I'm thinking in bed before 8 PM and loss of Internet privileges for a week ).


I would like to have just 2 hives as I don't really have the space for more than that at the moment. Could someone please provide me with a little advice on:

What if I have been a complete wally and HM got transferred to the new hive on the frames with the QC's?

What are my options for getting these 3 groups of bees back and playing nicely in 2 hives

Should I transfer the swarm into another box full of foundation (I don't have any spare drawn comb)? If the queen is not with them won't they just all fly out during the transfer?


Any help would be greatly appreciated


Thanks in anticipation


Shaaag

 

[Skyhook]

Removing frames may delay a colony in getting the urge to swarm, but once they've got it it's not strong enough medicine. There is a recent thread on the nucleus method of swarm control here which is sort of what you did, but minus several important bits. The queen should have been taken into the nucleus/split with no queen cells, and the original hive left with one or, at most 2.

Starting from where you are now- exactly what day did you find queen cells, and were any of them sealed? Ideally you need to go back into the hive that has swarmed and find and destroy all but one or two queen cells, but if you have a virgin running around in there you could do more harm than good. The same applies to the split.

The swarm should contain the old queen, so at least you know where she (probably) is now. Wise to shut them in, swarms tend not to like nuc boxes as being too small.

As the swarm was only yesterday, you'r probably OK to go back in today. Given that the QC's will be sealed you can't see what's in there so I would cross my fingers and leave 2 in each, in case one is a dud.

If both hives manage to get a decent queen mated and up and running, you can then kill the old queen and recombine the swarm into one of the other hives.

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[Finman]

.
Are you going to extract honey from hive this year
or add hives or what

what was the original size of hive when swarming?

 

[Shaaag]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I obviously misinterpreted the situation and thought that the hive was running out of room for the colony and needed more.

Finman. I am not fussed about honey, just making sure the colonies are viable. I bought a nuc late last year and despite it making fairly good progress, it wasn't up to full strength by the time winter kicked in; it died in March due to starvation (confirmed by the local FERA inspector). The colony had plenty of stores but just didn't move to them when it got really cold. I don't really want that to happen again.

My other colony survived OK and that is the one that swarmed.

There was an element of wanting to create another colony from the one I had, but preventing the swarm was more important and I failed.


Given that the split was only 3 days ago and I did it the wrong way round, I should have split the queen off and not the QCs, now the swarm has taken place will it be possible to put the QCs and frames back in the original hive and hive the swarm in the hive I am currently using for the split (minus the foam spacers)? The swarm would have nice fresh foundation to work on and keep them busy and (hopefully) HM for company.

I've potentially 3 colonies on my hands and not enough room (or the extra hive) to keep them.


Shaaag.

 

[Skyhook]

I've potentially 3 colonies on my hands and not enough room (or the extra hive) to keep them.


Shaaag.

Reread post 2 para 5.