Post OA varroa drops

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RoseCottage

Field Bee
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
718
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Location
Near Andover, UK
Hive Type
WBC
Number of Hives
From 5 to 2 and hopefully a better year
Just checked our bees post OA a fortnight ago. 4 hives had between 150 and 200 on the Varroa floor. One large colony had less than 5 and 1 had about 100.

Will check again but not sure whether a top up would be of any use...what do you think?

All bees were out flying again today. It was around 9 degrees.

All the best,
Sam
 
.
Part of mites bees carry out with jaws. But your results seem good.
Did you treat them in Autumn?
 
NO. One dose per generation.

read previous postings by rab re holistic IPM for the coming year.

WHAT!

I ment trymol or forminc acid in late Summer.

But there is no such rule as one dose per generation...and rab is not my guru...
 
I might expect a couple hundred, hopefully less. It depends on efficacy of thymol treatment, date treated, and seasonal conditions since then.

You should now have virtually none to kill off, so no point in risking your bees with further interference, acid mortality (or even colony mortality due to a combination of oxalic treatment and nosema, for instance).

There are sufficient alternatives available for me, when the bees are getting into spring expansion and later...

Last year, I picked on a colony which was relatively weak and loaded it with emerging brood from about three colonies I had supicions of having a shade too many mites. I did this over about a week. The weather was favourable and nearly all the brood emerged (might not be so lucky always), so in went the rest of the brood and most of the rest of the mites, from the suspects and the huge colony with all young bees was split, leaving no brood behind (the brood left in with the queen was sacrificed later) and the other bees cleared of most mites when the brood had emerged. All bees back together and huge colonies of bees.

Yes, it required effort. Yes, bees needed to be healthy, Yes, the weather was kind. Yes, I had enough colonies to play with and no, not so many that it was not so practical. Yes, they were all in the same apiary (for transferring brood frames). Yes, my other colonies were busy collecting OSR nectar.

The main reason for all that was that my beekeeping season had ended abruptly, the previous September, and the bees had been 'neglected'/'ignored'/'left to fend for themselves' until spring. None had succumbed over winter, but some were weaker than I would have preferred, going into winter.

After that, there were no further mite problems with those bees all summer. I had considered winter oxalic acid treatment, but deemed it unecessary. I did not consider colony strength at the time, but in hindsight, a couple or four were likely weak at the oxalic 'window' anyway and bee mortality from opening weak colonies in the middle of winter and pouring oxalic over them might have induced some colony mortality.

Yes, Finman will come on and say 'pff, too much effort, etc, etc, etc' but I don't really care. Mine is not a commercial enterprise. The point I am making is that there are other ways. At least a couple of my colonies displayed some signs of nosema for a very short period in the spring as they started to expand. I did not confirm it as they all went away like trains with spring expansion, so nothing really worth worrying too much about.

Those colonies might have had an adverse reaction to oxalic and so I may have lost quite a few through the winter for one reason or another. As I said, there were no dead-outs to deal with, and no oxalic treatments done .

No oxalic, this winter either. I shall await and see what I need to deal with when they start to get going. The plan may well pan out differently this year. I wait and see.

RAB
 
Part of mites bees carry out with jaws.

That is an image I would like to see........any real evidence for this?
 
Part of mites bees carry out with jaws.

That is an image I would like to see........any real evidence for this?

haha haha hah
>You really keep me mad?

How mites come out of doors if bees do not carry them?
 
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I might expect a couple hundred, hopefully less. It depends on efficacy of thymol treatment, date treated, and seasonal conditions since then.

You should now have virtually none to kill off, so no point in risking your bees with further interference, acid mortality (or even colony mortality due to a combination of oxalic treatment and nosema, for instance).There are sufficient alternatives available for me, when the bees are getting into spring expansion and later...

Last year, I picked on a colony which was relatively weak and loaded it with emerging brood from about three colonies I had supicions of having a shade too many mites. I did this over about a week. The weather was favourable and nearly all the brood emerged (might not be so lucky always), so in went the rest of the brood and most of the rest of the mites, from the suspects and the huge colony with all young bees was split, leaving no brood behind (the brood left in with the queen was sacrificed later) and the other bees cleared of most mites when the brood had emerged. All bees back together and huge colonies of bees.

Yes, it required effort. Yes, bees needed to be healthy, Yes, the weather was kind. Yes, I had enough colonies to play with and no, not so many that it was not so practical. Yes, they were all in the same apiary (for transferring brood frames). Yes, my other colonies were busy collecting OSR nectar.

The main reason for all that was that my beekeeping season had ended abruptly, the previous September, and the bees had been 'neglected'/'ignored'/'left to fend for themselves' until spring. None had succumbed over winter, but some were weaker than I would have preferred, going into winter.

After that, there were no further mite problems with those bees all summer. I had considered winter oxalic acid treatment, but deemed it unecessary. I did not consider colony strength at the time, but in hindsight, a couple or four were likely weak at the oxalic 'window' anyway and bee mortality from opening weak colonies in the middle of winter and pouring oxalic over them might have induced some colony mortality.

Yes, Finman will come on and say 'pff, too much effort, etc, etc, etc' but I don't really care. Mine is not a commercial enterprise. The point I am making is that there are other ways. At least a couple of my colonies displayed some signs of nosema for a very short period in the spring as they started to expand. I did not confirm it as they all went away like trains with spring expansion, so nothing really worth worrying too much about.

Those colonies might have had an adverse reaction to oxalic and so I may have lost quite a few through the winter for one reason or another. As I said, there were no dead-outs to deal with, and no oxalic treatments done .

No oxalic, this winter either. I shall await and see what I need to deal with when they start to get going. The plan may well pan out differently this year. I wait and see.

RAB

WHAT . You are so wise that you do to your bees what you do.

You will carry on without oxalic acid like before. Nothing stops you.

No research has reported this. Show me: with further interference, acid mortality (or even colony mortality due to a combination of oxalic treatment and nosema, for instance)..

I have treated nosema hives in Spring with trickling and nothing has happened. From where you get all those ideas? Researches made in UK or from your "once I had a hive" story collection?



.
 
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Just checked our bees post OA a fortnight ago. 4 hives had between 150 and 200 on the Varroa floor. One large colony had less than 5 and 1 had about 100.
Similar here, around 150 dropped per hive over 3 weeks. They were treated with Apiguard in September. In December a couple of samples showed mite drop rates of around two a day. According to the FERA documentation this would be 800 mites "Multiply the daily drop by 100 in March, April, September and October, 400 in November to February, and 30 in May to August, to give a good estimate of the total number of mites in the hive." 800 is a worrying level in December, so I decided to treat with oxalic acid.

The drop in January shows either the OA was only 20% effective or the December drop rate was misleading. I think the latter is most likely and the weather conditions meant the drop rate actually reflected the brooding level you would expect in October, maybe under 200 mites in the hive. If we were lucky and treated at the lowest brood level and if OA got 90% then we could be down to 20 or fewer. Several 'ifs' but it's not worth trying something like an ether roll to confirm that and I'm not concerned enough to risk another OA treatment.

The colonies appear otherwise healthy and had 6-8 seams of bees when treating with OA. Local opinion is to check again in March. Try more drop counts, whatever the accuracy doubts it's not intrusive. Drone sample when some cells are available. In the meantime, I'm weighing to see how the stores are doing and watching on milder days and yes, they are getting pollen from somewhere.:rolleyes:
 
RoseCottage - it's far too late for a second treatment of oxalic. Despite all the "experts" on this forum, I always treat twice but I make dammned sure that it is done after at least a two week interval between treatments and always do the first around Xmas day and certainly before end of December. The climate this current winter in most places in the UK may have resulted in a less than the normally tight cluster one would expect but, as far as I am concerned, that is an advantage as the bees are mobile and spread the oxalic about more readily.

Thymol (Apiguard,Apilifvar or whatever) in Late August also absolutely essential.
 
Originally Posted by icanhopit View Post
Part of mites bees carry out with jaws.

That is an image I would like to see........any real evidence for this?




haha haha hah
>You really keep me mad?

How mites come out of doors if bees do not carry them?


No... I would never dare to doubt you Mr Finman !

Would like to see a photograph of a bee with a pesky varroa mite wriggling in her jaws!

Mine (mites that is) tend to fall throuhg the OMF stone dead after being zapped with OA vaporisation !!

Ha Ha HA ..... !!!
 
"Mine (mites that is) tend to fall throuhg the OMF stone dead after being zapped with OA vaporisation !!"

So if you have a solid floor, how do dead mites get removed?
 
Here's a mite drop table showing the variability in mite count.
All were treated with thymol last year.
 
[ bee with a pesky varroa mite wriggling in her jaws!



Mine (mites that is) tend to fall throuhg the OMF stone


Ha Ha HA ..... !!![/I]


1) varroa is not a worm, and even if it, it does not wriggle as dead

2) I have only solid bottoms and reduced entrance. Dead mites use main entrance. I do not clean them.

3) A cry from long joy and a fart from long laughing.
 
Similar here, around 150 dropped per hive over 3 weeks. They were treated with Apiguard in September. In December a couple of samples showed mite drop rates of around two a day. According to the FERA documentation this would be 800 mites "Multiply the daily drop by 100 in March, April, September and October, 400 in November to February, and 30 in May to August, to give a good estimate of the total number of mites in the hive." 800 is a worrying level in December, so I decided to treat with oxalic acid.

The drop in January shows either the OA was only 20% effective or the December drop rate was misleading. I think the latter is most likely...

I think the most likely explanation is a third option - that the number of mites falling on the tray is not a good indication of how many were killed. Properly applied an OA trickle should be at least 80% effective and hopefully a lot higher. Why the drop is misleading will be down to several factors, for example, dead mites will have fallen in empty cells and will be carried outside by the bees at some point later when the bees decide to clean out the cells for brood rearing.

However, it is also possible the December drop you counted was inaccurate and there were not as many mites as you thought - but the OA killed at least 150 of them and that is good.

OA should be used routinely in winter after later summer thymol treatments as thymol is not effective enough on its own. As Finman has stated countless times, quoting good research, the mites will do much more damage than the effects of the OA. So treat 'em!
 
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I think the most likely explanation is a third option - that the number of mites falling on the tray is not a good indication of how many were killed...

However, it is also possible the December drop you counted was inaccurate and there were not as many mites as you thought - but the OA killed at least 150 of them and that is good.

OA should be used routinely in winter after later summer thymol treatments as thymol is not effective enough on its own. As Finman has stated countless times, quoting good research, the mites will do much more damage than the effects of the OA. So treat 'em!
May not have been quite explicit enough. The drop samples in December are the untreated drop over repeated periods of 5 to 7 days before treatment. The rates per day were consistent. According to FERA "a good estimate". There are obvious limitations, as you say some die in cells, the sample numbers are small, the boundaries are fixed dates, they apply all over the country. Is a mite falling on 31st October in Keswick one of 100 and one on the 1st November in Penzance one of 400?

It is, however, the only estimate suggested without disturbing the bees. All the advice I've had locally is that unless you're sure the numbers are tiny, treat with OA. I'm pretty sure Finman and yourself would agree. I'm happy to have 150 less and hope there are less than 50 still there. I'll try another drop count in a month or so because it's near enough.
 
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my varroa trays are repeatedly blowing out, let alone any tiny mite. I suspect mite counting at this time of the year is subject to huge errors.
 

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