Pollen Substitute

[HM Honey]

I put some patties on my hives last week but found they went hard quite quickly. Is there any reason that the ingredients cant just be put inside the eke still in powder form?

I was thinking of putting it on top of the frames in a shallow tray. Any advice?

 

[VEG]

the bees will then have to go out to get water to use it. What recipe did you use and where in the hive did you put it, on top of crown board or on top of bars?

 

[Finman]

.
it does not help if bees get not water.

Difficult to know, why it hardens. There are many factors in patty, how it stays soft.

- has fructose
- enough water
- not too much soya
- between grease papers

.

 

[Finman]

. Is there any reason that the ingredients cant just be put inside the eke still in powder form?

i know one reason. Bees do not eate powder or dry patty.

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

i know one reason. Bees do not eate powder or dry patty.

I don't know if they are eating it, or even if it is real, but according to the two videos in this link they are collecting powdered feedbee.

Click on product support for film.

www.feedbee.com

 

[bee crazy]

I've used Feed Bee, you need to make sure you get the pattie right on top of the bees and over the brood nest, the warmth of the bees will keep it moist and the bees take it quickly.

how did you mix it?

 

[Finman]

I don't know if

but according to the two videos in this link they are collecting powdered feedbee.

Click on product support for film.

www.feedbee.com

I feeded Feed Bee 4 weeks, and the amount, what bees ate, was 50% that of my recipe.
I cast away 20 kg feed bee.

Then, if you try to feed powder or even dry pollen outside. Bees spread most of powder to nature.

Open feeding just does not work.

.I feed 100 kg patty every spring. Top bars is a correct place to feed it., and over cluster.
There is no easy way to do that.
.

.

 

[bee crazy]

this is the same way I mixed it although it was on a bigger scale

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQeeIS2rpPQ[/ame]

 

[HM Honey]

I made it with 2:1 sugar syrup instead of water and the patties were wrapped in cling film and placed directly on top of the frames.

 

[richardbees]

HM Honey

Don't know about homemade pollen patties but I've recently fed a similar recipe commercial product "nektap0ll". I put 300 gm lumps into a polyfilm bag and rolled it into a flat pancake, then cut the layer of film from underneath and pressed it onto the frames where the bees seemed to be concentrated. After a week it had all gone from 1 hive and only some soft sludge slipping down between the frames on the others.

Did you do similar as I can't see why it hasn't worked for you e.g. did you leave the layer of cling film on top of the patties?

richard

 

[HM Honey]

Hi Richard

Yep, it was wrapped in clinfilm and I simply cut a square out of the cling film and put exposed side downward onto the frames. I'm thinking I maybe just didnt put enough fluid into the mixture.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I'm thinking I maybe just didnt put enough fluid into the mixture.

What is the mixture?

 

[Finman]

I made it with 2:1 sugar syrup instead of water and the patties were wrapped in cling film and placed directly on top of the frames.

what was the basic stuff?

.

 

[Finman]

.
I use grease paper with patty. Bees can do such holes to paper as they like. They tear paper easily to the floor too.

They usely eate first above the seams and bite paper away.

Hives uses normally 500g - 800 g in a week.

First it is slow because they do not get enough water in freezy weather.

.

 

[RosieMc]

Thank you for posting the video link on how to make patties. Now I know that my patties are too thick. I'll add some extra sugar syrup

 

[HM Honey]

what was the basic stuff?

.

The basic mixture is soya flour and brewers yeast mixed with sugar syrup.

 

[Finman]

.
Ok, that simple recipe.

I know that it will not work .

I have made quite much work in this forum to tell how to do it.

Basic recipe needs allways fructose. It takes moisture from air.
Mere cane sugar hardens. Soya/yeast ratio is important. And water content.
.

 

[Finman]

.
Most of beeks of course think that I have made my patty recipe complex for fun.
But to throw 5 or 10 different stuffs into mixture, it makes no diffence in whole process, what feeding with patty needs. But it is sure that "keep it simple", that does not work at all.
First reason is that bees need various food, and not simple. Larvae cannot grow with simple food.
Like you put soya flour ouside and and you see 10 bees picking it.

there are 4 main difficulty in patty feeding:

1. The patty fullfills complex nutrition needs of bees
2. Patty is tasty and bees eate it as much as possible
3. Patty stays soft. Bees cannot bite hard food with their jaws

4. Most beekeepers do not understand what means "nutrition", "aminoacid" or "build up of colony". Build up means at least 2 months process to grow number of workers to productive level.
It is not so that one day I saw bees in crocus or I gove a piece of miracle into the hive.

100% of beeks believe that sugar feeding helps in spring build up but it is not so.
Very few think that protein feeding is a key factor in feeding. But it is so.
Of course, nature takes care of build up as it has taken millions of years since Ice Ace.
But don't believe that continuos fondant feediing is some kind of skill.

.

 

[HM Honey]

.
Most of beeks of course think that I have made my patty recipe complex for fun.
But to throw 5 or 10 different stuffs into mixture, it makes no diffence in whole process, what feeding with patty needs. But it is sure that "keep it simple", that does not work at all.
First reason is that bees need various food, and not simple. Larvae cannot grow with simple food.
Like you put soya flour ouside and and you see 10 bees picking it.

there are 4 main difficulty in patty feeding:

1. The patty fullfills complex nutrition needs of bees
2. Patty is tasty and bees eate it as much as possible
3. Patty stays soft. Bees cannot bite hard food with their jaws

4. Most beekeepers do not understand what means "nutrition", "aminoacid" or "build up of colony". Build up means at least 2 months process to grow number of workers to productive level.
It is not so that one day I saw bees in crocus or I gove a piece of miracle into the hive.

100% of beeks believe that sugar feeding helps in spring build up but it is not so.
Very few think that protein feeding is a key factor in feeding. But it is so.
Of course, nature takes care of build up as it has taken millions of years since Ice Ace.
But don't believe that continuos fondant feediing is some kind of skill.

.

I saw one of your recipies but it contained irradiated pollen, which you just cant get in the uk. The recipy that I have used is the soy flour, brewers yeast, lemon juice, canola oil and multi vitamin.

What recipe do you use that doesnt include irradiated pollen?

 

[Little John]

We do pretty-well for pollen around these parts, but this year I made pollen patties for the very first time, as the bees were brooding-up for the year, but not flying.

I looked at a couple of videos, but noticed that the mixture was immediately kneeded and made dry enough to handle by sprinkling more flour onto the surface. That to me seemed a mistake, as the flour in the mix would surely continue to absorb moisture for several more hours - so I mixed a batch until it was of a 'thick porridge' consistency, and then let it rest overnight. Sure enough, by morning it was so stiff I could hardly push a spoon into it. So it went into a jar for inverted overhead feeding, 'as was'.

That was 3 or 4 days ago - have just checked the jar - the consistency hasn't changed at all, and the bees have been picking at it, but this morning the bees are flying properly for the first time this year, and yellow and white pollen is starting to come in, so it looks like they won't be needing it after all.

LJ