Paynes poly hive

[Bee Boys]

I got a new paynes poly hive last year but only got to use it about 6.5 months ago. I was inspecting the hive today and found that water has been geting into the hive. The frame lug rests are full of water, has anyone had this before and how did you sort it ? Thank you

 

[Madge]

Are the lug rises part of the polystyrene form, or are they separate inserts? If the former, then and condensation water that pools there, can’t drain away as they do with inserts.

PS: It’s not a problem. Think of it as their own water supply system.

 

[Bee Boys]

They are separate, I was woryed about the water freezing and making the colony weaker through winter. And the water has not been draining away.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is it condensation?
Then increase the insulation on top
I have a deep PIR roof that goes over the Payne’s own roof

 

[Beefriendly]

You have a poly cover to go over your Paynes poly hive......
Why?

 

[Erichalfbee]

You have a poly cover to go over your Paynes poly hive......
Why?

Because its the old style and I think the roof is too thin. It's only a roof, not a cover
The roof is thinner than the sides

 

[Beefriendly]

Because its the old style and I think the roof is too thin
The roof is thinner than the sides

How can a poly roof be too thin?
It's thermally efficient regardless of thickness, an extra few mm or so makes little real difference to the bees. Compared to matchsticks and a good through draft all winter Which many colonies (surprisingly) survived).
My acid winter test is, if snow melts on a roof it's too thin...something I found happened on wooden roofs with no insulation The Paynes original roof with short sides was fine, no snow ever melted. The next generation was an improvement I'll grant you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How can a poly roof be too thin?
It's thermally efficient regardless of thickness .
My acid winter test is, if snow melts on a roof it's too thin...something I found happened on wooden roofs with no insulation The Paynes original roof with short sides was fine, no snow ever melted. The next generation was an improvement I'll grant you.

OK, then
The longer answer is that I don't like the crown boards supplied with the Payne's poly nucs so Stan has made me 4mm thick polycarbonate crown boards with a 6mm rim and a central feeder hole (I know they make a top feeder now but they didn't when I bought these nucs)
This means that the roof doesn't fit
So it's been deepened by the requisite 1cm with wood.
In winter I cover this with my extra roof


As an aside
What has more insulation?
10mm of polystyrene or 20mm or is there no difference?

 

[Beefriendly]

OK, then
The longer answer is that I don't like the crown boards supplied with the Payne's poly nucs so Stan has made me 4mm thick polycarbonate crown boards with a 6mm rim and a central feeder hole (I know they make a top feeder now but they didn't when I bought these nucs)
This means that the roof doesn't fit?

As a practical issue then fine, but why not say so in the first place?
Yes thicker insulation has more thermal insulation, but how does this practically affect overwintering bees? If snow doesn't melt on either?

 

[Erichalfbee]

i was wondering whether there might be condensation and maybe it’s because the top of the OP’s hive may be cold enough to allow it.

Hence the notion of insulating the roof
It may be simpler
His roof could be leaking?

 

[Swarm]

More than one has found the issue of condensation build up in paynes hives is solved by extra insulation above.
Same approach works with maisee nucs and their original roof.

 

[SDM]

More than one has found the issue of condensation build up in paynes hives is solved by extra insulation above.
Same approach works with maisee nucs and their original roof.

Exactly, it was never really a problem and I suspect most of the condensation forms on the crown board when the roof is removed in colder weather, but all my paynes hives now have 25mm celotex under the roof.

 

[Bee Boys]

Thank you everyone.
The roof dose not appear to be leaking, it has no big dents or splits and the crown board is not wet. I have I have pout insulashon in the top super as recommended on this forum. the water seems to be entering the hive through the gap between the super and brood box.We have had heavy rain this week and I have not seen it when it was drier.

 

[Bee Boys]

here are some pics

 

[Beefriendly]

Two good points.
I've also found that you get condensation on the insert, mainly around the edges, if you haven't added enough bees.

 

[Bee Boys]

Sorry but what is an insert,
I have 10 frames coverd with bees on both sides in that hive and they have 5 frames of brood.

 

[Madge]

Don’t worry about it. I think it’s only condensation, and not a leak.

If the ends of your lug risers (the inserts) have been propolised shut, then the water can’t dribble away. As long as the condensation doesn’t dribble on the bees, but down the side walls, your bees will be fine - so, add more insulation above the crown board (but I think you said you’ve done that).

 

[Bee Boys]

Thank you

 

[Poly Hive]

I am curious as to why you have a super on? Stores or just space?

PH

 

[Madge]

I am curious as to why you have a super on? Stores or just space?



PH

I think he said he used it to hold extra insulation - particularly as the old Paynes roof is no thicker than the walls (as I understand). I also use supers to hold extra insulation and, of course, feeders above a crown board.