oxilac acid (disadvantages)

[grahambee]

i have been reading alot lately on forum posts about oxilac acid and the advantages and how it works (this deforms mouth of mite) the main question is, what are the disadvantages and long term effects on the bees.

 

[BKF Admin]

I dont believe there are any long term effects on the workers.
The problem I believe is with queens that have more than one treatment over their liftime.

Personaly I am happy to use OA on first winter queens but not on any second year plus ones.

I have to say that I came to this conclusion after speaking with one of our members who runs 300+ hives.

 

[RoofTops]

I think you will find this has been argued to death on this Forum but when used on a broodless colony it is fine. Used when there is brood it will be much less efficient and a small percentage of brood will be killed.

Thymol treatments are not 100% efficient so OA syrup trickled in winter is needed (or strongly recommended by most) to keep on top of the varroa. If you don't do it the bees may suffer much harm unless you have those magical self-cleaning bees which some people seem to be able to breed - or due to breaks in brood rearing during the summer (such as swarming) the varroa numbers were kept in check.

 

[Finman]

I dont believe there are any long term effects on the workers.
The problem I believe is with queens that have more than one treatment over their liftime.

Personaly I am happy to use OA on first winter queens but not on any second year plus ones.

I.

I asked from our varroa researcher Seppo Korpela that issue. And he said (laughed) that not at all. There is no evidence on harmfull treatment to queens. He nurses over 100 hives pesonally and for 4 years he has given second trickling in Marsh after cleansing.

He is going to collect doctor research on varroa control to Helsinki University.

I wrote about this a while ago but my writings seems not act in forum.

There is no long distance effects like thymol and formic acid have either.
There is no signs of tolerancy to these 3 stuff by varroa.

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

For those who are deafeated by varroa in the uk, due to poor varroa management methods, i would say use oxalic as a last resort..

 

[oliver90owner]

My reply is to rooftops where he states

"OA syrup trickled in winter is needed (or strongly recommended by most) to keep on top of the varroa."

Have you read and discounted the recent Beecraft article where it is at least suggested that a huge percentage of oxalic treatments to be (totally?) unecessary?

Real questions are: how many of these oxalic acid treatments are actually needed? Can anyone put a better figure on it than in the Beecraft article? Is this just 'lazy' beekeeping by not keeping on top of the problem throughout the rest of the year? How many do not get a good efficacy from Thymol preparations (or other) and how many suffer from later (post thymol) infestations?

I would not mind suggesting that most of the oxalic treatments are done automatically and without any idea as to whether they are actually needed. We can leave out the beefarmers with hundreds of colonies for this. They treat as a routine, to protect their income, not necesarily for the benefit of the bees.

Regards, RAB

Regards, RAB

 

[mignon]

I didn't treat with OA last year, partly because the harsh weather and partly because I was unsure if it was right thing for the Bees or me. As a result my Bees suffered, by May of last year DWD was so severe there was no option but to take the supers off and treat with thymol. By August the Bees were thriving but there was no surplus honey. To be honest I was just pleased they survived. So this year I have trickled OA without a second thought, in fact due to a broken ankle today was the first opportunity to do it, so am quite relived to get it done.

 

[wilderness]

RAB says "I would not mind suggesting that most of the oxalic treatments are done automatically and without any idea as to whether they are actually needed."

How many of you have monitored the varroa mite fall since doing the oxalic acid treat? More or less than last year?

I've decide NOT to treat with oxalic this year. I had one colony that suffered badly with varroa last year but I know why. I was using it as a drone rearing colony.

Despite all the reassurances, I believe that treating with oxalic must have some effect on the bees.

 

[oliver90owner]

mignon,

By May!! And you hadn't noticed!

No mention of your previous treatments that did not work! Tell us about them. When, treatment, how long for, mite drops before and after, single brood or double, OMF or solid floor? per eg.

You said "unsure if it was right thing" You should be sure. If you know your mite infestation you know what you have to do. Newbies should err on the cautious side and treat, if they don't know better.

I treated none of my colonies last year and there were no signs (or symptoms) during the summer, of serious infestation - nothing that could not be kept under control with a little IPM.

Regards, RAB

 

[Eyeman]

I dont believe there are any long term effects on the workers.

Some will find there colonies have died 1-2 weeks after OA. I lost one last year, and the same thing happened this year. One had a drone laying queen and the other was queenless going into winter- one may also have had a high nosema load. So OA during winter may kill 'old' bees and sick bees- some may say this isn't a bad thing.

Is this just 'lazy' beekeeping by not keeping on top of the problem throughout the rest of the year?

I personally want a simple effective method of varroa control. OA suits the purpose. I would dearly love to avoid all those time consuming treatments, including thymol.
Perhaps the best 'lazy persons' method is OA during winter and a shook swarm late spring.
Alec

 

[oliver90owner]

I was using it as a drone rearing colony.

I can understand that. The problem that arises is when to stop using it as a drone rearing colony.

Most accept that drones are not nearly as potent if they have been if they have helped to rear another set of mites.

I would suggest, to those out there that are considering this, to only use a colony for early drones, and treat ASAP. After all, later drones are probably inferior to the local mongrels anyway!

Regards, RAB

 

[johnandyrob]

In my opinion one of the problems which has come to my attention is the lack of natural mite drop making beeks believe their is only a small mite population but when treated a huge mite drop
Regards Andrew

 

[Hivemaker.]

In my opinion one of the problems which has come to my attention is the lack of natural mite drop making beeks believe their is only a small mite population but when treated a huge mite drop
Regards Andrew

What in your opinion causes this lack of natural mite drop,i assume you mean dead mites.

 

[oliver90owner]

Hivemaker,

lack of natural mite drop

Wouldn't that mean they are living (nearly) for ever (barring treatments)? Or are the bees disposing of the corpses?

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

.
It is so easy to be some opinion, and positive of course.

But how many real researches you have done personally or in UK?
Many kind of mistakes exists in the papers of beekeepers.
To count weekly varroa drop down means nothing.

Even if someone makes some where real research, here in forum it is twisted to what ever..

Couple of years ago oxalic acid was not much used in UK. Yoy mau do the medication without OA, but your feelings give not right totwist facts what ever.

First it was against law. Tens of beekeepers were in prison.

Then you had lack accurate scales.

only few may calculate molarweight of syrup. Thanks heaven, NZ told how to do it.


UK got 8 million poud to research bee diseases. What has happened?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Wouldn't that mean they are living (nearly) for ever (barring treatments)? Or are the bees disposing of the corpses?



Thats why i asked johnandyrob.
Yes of course they would have to live forever,or until treated....but if being removed by the bee's, are they catching them as they drop dead...before they hit the mesh floor,and flying out with them even in cold weather...

 

[Hivemaker.]

UK got 8 million poud to research bee diseases. What has happened?


Important research on the waggle dance.

 

[Finman]

.

The original question was, does it exist long term problems with trickling. It is carefully researched and nothing has been found. But discussion exploded again like nuclear bomb.

 

[mignon]

Oliver90owner
I hold my hands up! I should have understood the problem long before I actually did, last year was a huge learning curve. I got the Bees mid July 2009 and treated with the apigard as prescribed at the end of August and there was very little mite drop. I whole heartedly agree that if one is not unsure about a thing then seek advice or don't do it.
The Bees are on an OMF and are a brood and a half.
In spring 2010 they were showing signs of nosema, so had some tested and then treated the colony.If I am honest I put the slow spring build up down to the nosema. I did notice the odd DWD but again from asking other beeks and from what I had read the nosema was the likely cause. In hindsight yes I should have treated sooner and for sure will not be caught out again.
May/June 2010 the Bees were treated with apigard as prescribed as there was a massive mite drop and thankfully the Bees recovered. I treated again in August, when there was a fair amount of mite at the beginning but by the end of the treatment there was none that I could see. However, I decided to treat with OA today after much reading and talking to experienced Beeks and came to the conclusion that for this colony it was the right thing to do. As I gain more experience and more confidence I suspect I will do things differently that is part of learning.
And I must just add that the information I have gleaned from this forum over the last six months has been invaluable, so thank you.

 

[louiseww]

I am a first year beek so can't compare with last year, but I have monitored the varroa fall since the OA treatment and its has been pretty good - over several checks for each hive about 400 - it has now slowed down and the last check was about 5 from one hive and 20 from another. So I feel quite pleased with the result even though I was nervous doing the OA treatment for the first time.
Louise