Oxalic on a swarm

[bustergrimes]

Hiya. I'm after a bit of advice for another swarm I collected recently. These are the facts:

- Swarm picked up 4 days ago in a polynuc
- Dribbled oxalic after day 3
- Day 4 lots of bearding
- Temperature today 26 degrees

I'm pretty sure she's a virgin queen but I don't want to open the entrance full as I'm worried she'll fly off with the entire swarm.

I've read that treating with oxalic may cause the swarm to abscond so as it's in a polynuc with that handy wheel over the entrance I've trapped her inside with the queen includer.

Is this the right thing to do?

Thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you're pretty sure it's a virgin queen - no.
How is she going to get out to mate?

 

[Finman]

.
Lots of bearding...that should not be.

Open the hive and look inside, what is there.
If it is full of bees, add a box more.

 

[alldigging]

How much ventilation have they got?

 

[bustergrimes]

jenkinsbrynmair:
That's my dilemma. I realise she needs to mate but if I remove the queen includer I'm worried the whole swarm will abscond because of the oxalic treatment. My plan was to open it up tomorrow once (hopefully) the bees had calmed down.

- Should I let her fly now and risk losing the swarm?
- Is keeping her trapped in doing more harm than good?


Finman:
It's a 6 frame polynuc so I cannot add another box. The polynuc is full of bees but not overcrowded. However, it's quite hot here today - a high of 26 degrees centigrade. Would that contribute to the bearding? None of the other colonies in the apiary are bearding though.

 

[bustergrimes]

alldigging:
The polynuc has a mesh floor and the entrance is open albeit with a queen includer. The nuc is partially shaded. None of the other colonies in the apiary are bearding.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In my view, you need to get the queen mated - if you lose the swarm, well, easy come............................

 

[bustergrimes]

jenkinsbrynmair:

I don't mind losing a swarm but I don't want to upset the neighbours and I don't want to have to go and retrieve it. I am trying to get all my beekeeping done today as I'm moving house over the next couple of days.

In your experience:
- do you think it's the oxalic that's making them beard?
- do you think they'll calm down by tomorrow?
- would it matter if I waited until tomorrow to let her out?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

a) could be - but it could also be the weather
b)Maybe but you can never tell with bees
c) hard to tell as it's not something I'd consider but I suppese if the weather was bad they wouldn't be out anyway so maybe not,

 

[Finman]

.
I cannot imagine other reason to bearding than too small nuc.

26C is not much to bees. It is good foraging weather.

 

[Ely]

Queen mating is a priority. Certainly do not block her in. Making their life stress full will make them more likely to abscond. If you treat when you see see eggs and larvae but before any brood is capped they would be unlikely to abscond

 

[sunhivebee]

Let's face it, treating a swarm with oxalic acid is just not the thing to do. Absconding is the answer. Whoever advised you to do that, let them abscond from your circle of advisers.

 

[Finman]

Let's face it, treating a swarm with oxalic acid is just not the thing to do. Absconding is the answer. Whoever advised you to do that, let them abscond from your circle of advisers.

Where are your facts....or your own experiences...

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Now, where's my popcorn?

 

[Ely]

Round 1. Ding!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Let's face it, treating a swarm with oxalic acid is just not the thing to do. Absconding is the answer.

Better to take away the first frame of capped brood?

 

[Finman]

Round 1. Ding!!

Hah hah. It is your bees out there...

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I've treated a few swarms with Oxalic Acid of the correct strength and they have not left the hive - they've not noticed. (Apiguard is different!) It's unlikely that the colony will go after 4 days in one location; I would remove the queen excluder and let nature do what nature does.

If it's a decent sized swarm a 6 frame box may not be big enough. A good swarm can draw 12 frames of foundation in a week or so; a 6 frame nuc is 1/2 a hive. If the queen is mated already, then she could be laying by now. Why do you suspect that she isn't?

 

[itma]

A swarm generates a lot of heat - they are programmed to draw wax.
The bigger the swarm, the more heat generated.

A 6-frame polynuc is a well-insulated but not particularly well-ventilated and somewhat smallish (if standard National) box.

I like and use Paynes polynucs. With the 14x12 eke.
They have a mesh floor.
But even so, I am always concerned to mount them at least slightly off the ground so that grass cannot block the airflow under the box.

 

[itma]

I've treated a few swarms with Oxalic Acid of the correct strength and they have not left the hive - they've not noticed. …

Yes, correct dribbling of Oxalic should not upset the bees at all.