Over crowded hive - what to do?

[bingevader]

Brood and a half becomes very restrictive and inflexible - as I have learned this year.

Can you elaborate please?
We've run without QEs for a few years now, which basically boils down to broad and a half at the end of the season.
I can understand why commercial beekeepers or those with many hives would find the extra manipulation time unacceptable, but for those of us with only a handful of hives?

 

[Arfermo]

How many bees are actually in the supers when you look in

Got a half-decent abacus?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Got a half-decent abacus?

No but I have ten fingers

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Can you elaborate please?
We've run without QEs for a few years now, which basically boils down to broad and a half at the end of the season.
I can understand why commercial beekeepers or those with many hives would find the extra manipulation time unacceptable, but for those of us with only a handful of hives?

The inflexibility I find is because the brood frames are not all the same size. If you want to move them around to open up the brood nest, you are limited to manipulations in the single boxes only - you can’t move frames up from brood to half brood, or vice versa.
Also if you have brood mainly in the half brood and need a frame of eggs and larvae for another hive, but for the brood box, it won’t fit - you have a gap beneath. That sort of issue.
If you read Michael Bush “The Practical Beekeeper” he goes into the benefits of one frame size throughout the hive - brood and supers (!) for total flexibility. His stuff is available free on the net. It’s very sensible I think.
Also, I’ve found on brood and a half, I have had to inspect both boxes frame by frame for swarm control, as the bees quickly outgrow the half brood if on top. On double brood there is often little need to thoroughly check the bottom box as queen cells are usually located in the upper box. Commercial keepers on double literally tilt the upper box and inspect the bottoms of the frames and call it a Doris.
I hope that helps and I hope I’ve explained it ok?
A lot of folk operate brood and a half as the brood area is suited to most colonies, so my comments are personal, not critical of other folks methods

 

[E&MBees]

Can you elaborate please?
We've run without QEs for a few years now, which basically boils down to broad and a half at the end of the season.
I can understand why commercial beekeepers or those with many hives would find the extra manipulation time unacceptable, but for those of us with only a handful of hives?

I’ve got in quite a muddle at times with brood and a half. It’s knowing where to put everything if you need to look in the bottom box. Normally I would stack the crown board, super, followed by qx on top of the roof all slightly unaligned to avoid squashing bees, but if I then do that with the half brood box & the queen is in there she can escape into the super.

How do you check the bottom box if needed?

Thanks

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

I had exactly that issue last year - where the queen got into the supers after stacking the half brood with them.
Enrico gave advice to prevent this. I made a couple of ekes and effectively make two stacks - the supers on the upturned roof and the half brood on an eke. He also advised covering the stacks to reduce the amount of flying bees while going through the brood box. It has made a really big difference for me this year. Simple but effective.

 

[Moobee]

I don’t think brood and a half is that bad (puts tin helmet on). I used it on my first hive last year and have been following the Wally Shaw method of manipulations and it's working fine. Don’t plan to use it next year though on my two new hives, one of which currently has a nadired super and the other which is fine on a single brood box. Will use double brood on those if need be.

interesting. I got my first bees early June and they quickly expanded into the brood box and started building play cups (lots!). My mentor advised going to brood and 1/2 to give them some space and it did the trick. No swarming and they seem ok. Took off 6 frames of honey early August and they have nearly filled 2 supers. Ran on just one hive this year, planning to expand to 2 or 3 next year.... if I can find the space for them (current hive is in the garden).

 

[bingevader]

The inflexibility I find is because the brood frames are not all the same size. If you want to move them around to open up the brood nest, you are limited to manipulations in the single boxes only - you can’t move frames up from brood to half brood, or vice versa.
Also if you have brood mainly in the half brood and need a frame of eggs and larvae for another hive, but for the brood box, it won’t fit - you have a gap beneath. That sort of issue.
If you read Michael Bush “The Practical Beekeeper” he goes into the benefits of one frame size throughout the hive - brood and supers (!) for total flexibility. His stuff is available free on the net. It’s very sensible I think.
Also, I’ve found on brood and a half, I have had to inspect both boxes frame by frame for swarm control, as the bees quickly outgrow the half brood if on top. On double brood there is often little need to thoroughly check the bottom box as queen cells are usually located in the upper box. Commercial keepers on double literally tilt the upper box and inspect the bottoms of the frames and call it a Doris.
I hope that helps and I hope I’ve explained it ok?
A lot of folk operate brood and a half as the brood area is suited to most colonies, so my comments are personal, not critical of other folks methods

Thanks!
Yes, I like Bush's approach.

 

[bingevader]

I’ve got in quite a muddle at times with brood and a half. It’s knowing where to put everything if you need to look in the bottom box. Normally I would stack the crown board, super, followed by qx on top of the roof all slightly unaligned to avoid squashing bees, but if I then do that with the half brood box & the queen is in there she can escape into the super.

How do you check the bottom box if needed?

Thanks

We don't use QEs so the queen roams where she wants anyway, but usually stays in the brood area, so we inspect the bottom box as usual.

 

[bobba]

I have bee running brood + 1/2 since I started last year. I did not know double brood was an option when I started.

Its definitely not without its issues. The 2 separate frame sizes cause the problems.

But all in all its worked ok for me so far.

When inspecting I keep a spare stand to stack supers on. Then put the 1/2 on the upturned roof so it is always separate from the supers.