Old deserted hive with new swarm

[Twistytrees]

Hallo everyone I’m completely new to beekeeping. My husband dabbled but wasps invaded both hives and that was the end of that. Anyway one hive was still in the garden looking pretty but with no residents until last week when I saw a random swarm of honey bees moving in. They’re still there so I thought I’d learn to look after it.

ok so we’ve had a look inside please bare in mind I’m a complete and utter novice but very keen to learn.

The hive has three boxes and is a National.

We took the top box off there’s a few bees in the old comb but not many. So we have taken that one off and left it for the moment beside the hive.

The super underneath has still got a old comb, dead desiccated wasps etc in it and quite a lot of honeybees.

looked under the queen excluder and it’s very busy in there.

We have put it back together and left the top super on the ground in front of the hive. We have also put bricks onto the roof to press the queen excluder and the top floor/board thingy down as they had twisted a little bit when they were removed.

Is it right leaving the super in front of the hive to allow bees to return or should I remove it I don’t want it to attract wasps.

So what next? Should I be doing anything to the other layer above the Queen excluder? Do they need feeding any advice at all will be very much appreciated.

 

[Ian123]

Some pics would be good…. I’d remove the top boxes leaving single box remove the excluder. In all likely hood I’d suspect the frames are rubbish. I’d add a new brood with frames and feed, once the bees start on the new box you can carry out an inspection. At this time of year she may be reluctant to move the brood up so you may have to go in and find her. Failing that reverse the boxes, use be quick to drive the bees down and then slide excluder back. Your then going to have to wait for brood to emerge and then remove top box and feed fast. If that’s all to much of a faff. Remove top boxes feed and treat, then in spring add a new box to the top and they’ll readily move up.

 

[blackcloud]

Start sourcing. some top insulation and look into some varroa treatment.
After that and Ian's advice it's up to them - you've done your bit.

 

[Twistytrees]

Thank you for the replies just so just so I understand…

Does the queen like to move higher up if she can? What happens to the old brood box underneath, will it become empty and eventually need to be removed?

If I manage to find her do I move that frame into the new brood box above the old box?

I notice the box I removed and left by the hive is very quiet now I assume I do the same with the other top box, remove, leave for a while then take away?

Hubby says he’s got a box in the garage and the bits to make frames so that’s tomorrows job.

Thank you so much for the help I really do appreciate it. I’ll post some pics tomorrow.

 

[Ian123]

If you can actually go through the box and the frames are salvageable then see if you can spot her….put the frame with her in the top box directly above the other frames containing brood sliding queen excluder between the boxes. Then feed once all brood has hatched below remove bottom box, feed 1-1 and only a little or they’ll stuff the bottom box. You just want them to draw a little of the foundation. If you can’t find her revert to the above methods, it’s your call on the condition of the old frames.

 

[Twistytrees]

So the lower brood box is full of old comb and bees. The frames were stuck so thought best to leave alone.
Removed the other super which had some activity in it so have left it near the hive for now also took the queen guard off. Then put a clean brood box on top so hope the queen wanders up. If she does I’ll put the Queen guard between the two boxes to keep her up there. Hope that all sounds correct? Please let me know if you think I’ve missed anything.

I bought some syrup and a feeding pot to put in the roof space but it’s too big so I’ll need to change it for a shorter one later in the week.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Where is that old super now? You shouldn't leave it out I the open for bees and wasps from everywhere to rob it.

 

[Twistytrees]

Oh it’s in the garage now I just left it there for a while as there were some bees in it.

 

[Sutty]

If you can take the frames out of the super you could put it over the colony as an eke to give space for your feeder.

 

[ericbeaumont]

So what next?

Steve's advice on your other thread is the least you'll have to follow, Twistytrees, especially feeding, because the swarm arrived recently at a time when there's very little in flower to allow them to make enough honey to survive winter.

You will need to treat them against varroa and consider feeding as we head towards winter so an inspection or a couple before then to assess their health and viability would be advisable.

Your best friend for the next few years will be the best beginner book, the Haynes Bee Manual. One copy left at £8.99 here.

 

[Twistytrees]

Hallo me again

I’ve followed the advice given and so far so good so thank you it’s been very much appreciated.

I’ve been feeding syrup and have completed a course of varroa treatment and I’ve seen the queen. The colony has expanded considerably from what it was but is on only 5 frames in a National brood box. From what I’ve gleaned this too big a space for this small colony for the winter (or is it?) .

I thought about partitioning off some of the unused hive with a board. What do you think is this wise or should I leave it alone?

Any advice? I want to give them as good a chance of getting through the winter as possible I’ve got fondant ready but I’m still giving syrup at the moment.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes you can partition off using an insulated dummy board OR my preference would be to pop them into a poly nuc for the winter

 

[Do224]

Hallo me again

I’ve followed the advice given and so far so good so thank you it’s been very much appreciated.

I’ve been feeding syrup and have completed a course of varroa treatment and I’ve seen the queen. The colony has expanded considerably from what it was but is on only 5 frames in a National brood box. From what I’ve gleaned this too big a space for this small colony for the winter (or is it?) .

I thought about partitioning off some of the unused hive with a board. What do you think is this wise or should I leave it alone?

Any advice? I want to give them as good a chance of getting through the winter as possible I’ve got fondant ready but I’m still giving syrup at the moment.

I tried dummying down (with insulation board) similar size colonies in a full size hive last year. It didn’t work for me. If I was you I’d either insulate the whole hive (in addition to dummying down) or buy a poly nuc for them as has been suggested

 

[ericbeaumont]

5 frames in a National brood box

pop them into a poly nuc for the winter

Definitely! BS or Maisemore are best options.

https://www.bshoneybees.co.uk/polyhives/poly-nucshttps://bees-online.co.uk/product/nat-poly-6-frame-nuc-empty-option-1-1-to-4-each/

 

[jimmiestan]

Definitely! BS or Maisemore are best options.

https://www.bshoneybees.co.uk/polyhives/poly-nucshttps://bees-online.co.uk/product/nat-poly-6-frame-nuc-empty-option-1-1-to-4-each/

I'm wondering, twistytrees, what happened with this situation as we have a similar one here in Cromarty, and we have lots of 50mmm xtratherm insulation so could effectively make up a poly nuc withing a hive...............

 

[Twistytrees]

Well it was a very small colony so I insulated the crown board and made two internal insulated reducers (not sure correct term) to take hive down to essentially a nuc inside a large hive body with open mesh floor and fed with fondant.

Not connected to this, the colony ultimately became queenless and started drone, laying in the spring and declined, it was too early in the season to requeen. nevertheless they survived right through the winter, and I had to had to eventually shake them out the following May.

The key point was, I learnt loads and considering it became queenless at some point it still survived with this set up and no doubt would’ve thrived had the Queen come through.

Side-note the empty hive attracted a second colony in June, which I’ve split and got two fairly strong colonies to go through next winter so onwards and upwards. Good luck with yours.

 

[jimmiestan]

Thanks -- we might try this, the marked Q is a 2022 lady so she should be ok. Not a great layer though, but hard to criticise her with the summer we've had.