oh dear! insecticide on my hives

[thenovice]

Just spent the weekend making up boxes and frames in the garden. took everything inside after. left for work this morning intending to move everything to the shed tonight. Guess when my other halve decides to treat against the imaginary fleas with permethrin bombs...

Any ideas? Read Permethin is unstable in alkaline environments...

 

[MartinL]

Fleas on what?

 

[thenovice]

Fleas on what?

We have a cat and he brings in the odd flea. My wife freaks out when she gets a single bite and always responds by bombing the whole house. This time there were supers and broodboxes in the room...

 

[waverider]

Afternoon reading for you;

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=apis+mellifera+permethrin&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=

 

[EKBee]

Dispose of the cat/wife
Wash the frames & boxes

 

[thenovice]

Afternoon reading for you;

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&q=apis+mellifera+permethrin&btnG=&as_sdt=1,5&as_sdtp=

yeah, we all know it is extremely bad for bees... I had the argument a thousand times over but SWMBO is like an end user Licence agreement, in the end you always agree...

one of the articles studied the effects of pesticide residue in comb on brood rearing and nosema susceptibility. I think I'll burn the hives after reading that...

 

[thenovice]

Dispose of the cat/wife
Wash the frames & boxes

Disposal of wife would be enough . washing would be my first call but Permethrin is however insoluble in water...

as per waveriders literature background, you'd not want any residue as highly toxic for bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

yeah, we all know it is extremely bad for bees... I

Not too good for humans either !

 

[Swinton apiaries]

There must be a time limet on the package that the bomb came in instead of burning them I would risk leaving them out side for a couple of months over that time to air out I no this could be over 12 months but you will be able to use them eventually

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not too good for humans either !

Nor cats, in which it is quite toxic. Is your wife aware of this?

 

[itma]

Despite insolubility in water, I think washing would mechanically remove most of the problem from wooden surfaces.
And a bit (or a lot) of alkaline washing soda wouldn't do any harm.
Then leave outside for a week or two ...

However, the thing that could give a problem, and might take in some of the pesticide would be the wax.
Safe thing would be to remove the foundation, wash the frames and air them before replacing the foundation.
You've just gained some wax to play with ... (but please, NOT to trade back against new foundation).
Good news, you can now try some of the superior foundation from KBS!

 

[Bosleeu]

There are much better ways to sort the flea problem out. Permethrin degrades, especially in UV light. I think you may have to store the stuff for a season if you can (probably less but that should do it) , and try and get the sun on them in summer. Would be a shame to lose it all.

Wax is perhaps a different matter...... May be best to get rid of that.

 

[wessexmario]

Despite insolubility in water, I think washing would mechanically remove most of the problem from wooden surfaces.
And a bit (or a lot) of alkaline washing soda wouldn't do any harm.
Then leave outside for a week or two ...

I'd suggest an absolute minimum of six months if not a year, weathering off outside in a sunlit spot. (but if you do that, be careful of where the runoff goes!)
"Permethrin is quite stable, having a half life of 51–71 days in an aqueous environment exposed to light. It is also highly persistent in soil"

"Its use is controversial because, as a broad-spectrum chemical, it kills indiscriminately; as well as the intended pests, it can harm beneficial insects including honey bees, and aquatic life."
"Permethrin kills ticks on contact with treated clothing"

It's not particularly clever for cats either...
"Permethrin is also highly toxic to cats, and flea and tick-repellent formulas intended and labeled for (the more resistant) dogs may contain permethrin and cause feline permethrin toxicosis in cats."

Quotes taken from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

 

[thenovice]

Despite insolubility in water, I think washing would mechanically remove most of the problem from wooden surfaces.
And a bit (or a lot) of alkaline washing soda wouldn't do any harm.
Then leave outside for a week or two ...

However, the thing that could give a problem, and might take in some of the pesticide would be the wax.
Safe thing would be to remove the foundation, wash the frames and air them before replacing the foundation.
You've just gained some wax to play with ... (but please, NOT to trade back against new foundation).
Good news, you can now try some of the superior foundation from KBS!

That was my hunch from the start but it is the playing bit I am scared of. Maybe catch some bees and keep them in the cleaned boxes for a day or 2?

the wax is minimal as most of the frames I made up with starter strip so will get rid of that anyway.

 

[thenovice]

There are much better ways to sort the flea problem out. Permethrin degrades, especially in UV light. I think you may have to store the stuff for a season if you can (probably less but that should do it) , and try and get the sun on them in summer. Would be a shame to lose it all.

Wax is perhaps a different matter...... May be best to get rid of that.

yes, getting rid of the wife . Anything else you know to be effective?

 

[itma]

That was my hunch from the start but it is the playing bit I am scared of. Maybe catch some bees and keep them in the cleaned boxes for a day or 2?

the wax is minimal as most of the frames I made up with starter strip so will get rid of that anyway.

By "wax to play with" the meaning I intended to communicate was that the foundation wax should be melted down and removed from bee contact.
You might choose to play at making show wax or candles (shouldn't be any more harmful than candles left in the decontaminated room). But I'm not suggesting cosmetics, foundation, or even bee toxicity testing ...

However, if there isn't much, then there won't be much to play with ...

 

[dn170221]

It might be worthwhile investigating what effect heat might have on the chemical, a blow torch may be a way of breaking down the chemical.

But really sounds you have a free licence to buy a load more stuff for one of the conventions or just replace what was maligned with a bit extra fror interest!!

 

[MikeT]

This is an extract from

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/metiram-propoxur/permethrin-ext.html

Permethrin is extremely toxic to bees. Severe losses may be expected if bees are present at treatment time, or within a day thereafter (7, 12). Permethrin is also toxic to wildlife (9). It should not be applied, or allowed to drift, to crops or weeds in which active foraging takes place.

However it is broken down quite quickly especially in strong sunlight. I have worked with synthetic pyrethroids some years ago. I would as others have suggested leave the boxes outside in full sun for 3 to 6 months. The wax and frames I would be more concerned with as the bees come into direct contact, I would suggest you destroy these.

Have you thought about asking your wife to replace the kit which you have lost the use of, or will that cause too many problems.

Best of luck

Mike

 

[MuswellMetro]

Dispose of the cat/wife
Wash the frames & boxes

keep the cat, agree with the rest

 

[Bosleeu]

yes, getting rid of the wife . Anything else you know to be effective?

The best flea treatments are prescription only. Some of them will treat worms and other parasites as well. There is now a spot-on formulation for cats that is licenced to treat fleas, ticks and all the worms.

In our part of the country we are seeing a lot of resistance against OTC preparations in fleas, including permethrin - which cats are pretty sensitive to in any way. NEVER put any flea preparation for dogs on a cat.

Your vets will be best to advise you on the best treatment for your cats. Depending on when they last saw the cat, they may ask to see your cat. Many vets will do this for free for flea meds.