Number of wires on National Brood frame

[Newbeeneil]

I doubt that an eyelet punch will do the job .,.,

1. I use these eyelets ...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303715172518?hash=item46b6d5c0a6:g:L1sAAOSw7mNcd1xJ
2. I drill two side bars at a time using a pillar drill with a 4mm drill and a jig to line the holes up - then I make the frames up.

3. I insert the eyelets using a tool I made out of an old bradawl so I can pick them up on the end of it and press them into the holes, they are slightly bigger than the holes so they stay in.

4. Another jig that has the spool of wire on a spindle, a piece of 2 x 1 timber about a metre long and a peg to tell me how much wire to cut off. I use the stainless frame wire from Simon the beekeeper here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262314484542?hash=item3d1329633e:g:TrIAAOSwDuJW1Xvq
5. Nail the first end of the wire into the side of the frame side bar next to the bottom eyelet then pass the wire through each eyelet tensioning it as you go. Pull it as tight as you can when you get to the last eyelet and nail in the side bar. The key to nailing is to drive the nail in part of the way, wrap the wire round it a couple of times then finish driving the nail in.

6. I crimp the wires using one of these crimping tools which tensions the wire fully:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284567808650?hash=item4241902a8a:g:xOYAAOSwKfVXKC01
Pretty straightforward if you are organised. You really don't need 4 horizontal wires - it's not necessary thee is suffiicient - the comb won't blow out any more with 3 wires than it will with 4 - the key to fresh comb spinning is to spin it gently and longer until the bulk of the honey is out. Another reason is that four wires adds a further length of wire which means you have more to pull through and tension - makes it harder and takes more time.

You will need a pair of wire cutters to cut the wire and a pair of pliers to help with tensioning - grip the wire with the pliers and lever against the side bar to tighten it the bend it over the edge of the eyelet which will retain some of the tension - the last pull at the end grip the wire and wrap it round the part inserted nail.

Are you going to be adding foundation or are you going foundationless ?

Brilliant description Phillip

 

[pargyle]

Brilliant description Phillip

I spent years trying to reinvent frame wiring and then an old beekeeper showed me his method and I've never felt the need to change it ... just occasionally the old way is the best way ... although ... I'm always open for new ideas to try !

 

[Newbeeneil]

I spent years trying to reinvent frame wiring and then an old beekeeper showed me his method and I've never felt the need to change it ... just occasionally the old way is the best way ... although ... I'm always open for new ideas to try !

I do it exactly the same way, except I use pointed pliers to push the eyelets in. I’ve only ever used 4 wires in 14x12’s but tension is difficult to achieve as the side bars bend if tightened too much.

 

[user 20297]

I do it exactly the same way, except I use pointed pliers to push the eyelets in. I’ve only ever used 4 wires in 14x12’s but tension is difficult to achieve as the side bars bend if tightened too much.

.......the bend gives the tension.

 

[Newbeeneil]

.......the bend gives the tension.

But as you tension the last couple of wires the friction in the 90deg bends in the first wires cause the tension in those wires to reduce.
and fitting straight sided foundation to a curved side bar is interesting

 

[Gunner]

I am thinking of trying wiring some frames this coming season rather than using my normal pre-wired foundation. Is there any benefit to wiring horizontally compared to wiring vertically? I presume it is possible to obtain one piece bottom bars for National deep & super frames?

 

[rolande]

I am thinking of trying wiring some frames this coming season rather than using my normal pre-wired foundation. Is there any benefit to wiring horizontally compared to wiring vertically? I presume it is possible to obtain one piece bottom bars for National deep & super frames?

There's a couple of points which are worth consideration. First off, you'll end up with the wire running along the upper surface of the topbar in places. Secondly, I'm doubtful if any UK made bottom bar will be thick enough to allow you to achieve reasonable tension without causing at least some distortion at the centre point, which in itself will pull in the bottoms of the side bars. I know some of the European companies produce frames wired in this manner but would hazard a guess that they either use a stronger bottom bar or, perhaps, follow the philosophy that frame wires should be quite loose.

 

[user 20297]

But as you tension the last couple of wires the friction in the 90deg bends in the first wires cause the tension in those wires to reduce.
and fitting straight sided foundation to a curved side bar is interesting

I haven't experienced that tension problem; probably because I'm only using two horizontals in a standard deep. I wouldn't be pre-tensioning to the extent of really distorting the bars in any case.
I'm only using wires when making up foundationless frames and if I did use foundation I would choose pre-wired or plastic, so the "curved" bar issue wouldn't arise.

I have some pre-wired frames in some Minplus nucs I bought; they have really loose wiring, which seems odd given the much smaller size. They also have more than two horizontals, so maybe that's one of the causes of the issue?

 

[rolande]

6. I crimp the wires using one of these crimping tools which tensions the wire fully:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284567808650?hash=item4241902a8a:g:xOYAAOSwKfVXKC01

I've never been a fan of these crimpers and I definitely don't need to use them when I first wire the frame but.... About a year ago I did try one of the bigger, wood framed ones which the Chinese are sending over and I've got to say that it's an absolute pleasure to use (for quick take up of small amounts of loose wire after cleaning frames. For wires which have more to take up I still prefer the old method of using a cut down gimp pin in the sidebar to do the job).

 

[Poddy]

 

[Poddy]

Here’s the eyelet punch I’ll be using, and then wire size would be from 0.3 to 0.5mm guess this might just be trial and error. I do find the U.K. market lacking when it comes to wired frames guess we have got so used to pre-wired or plastic. Was thinking about a 50mm starter strip just down to the first wire on a 3 wire system just to get the bees going, I know I would get away with just a bead of wax, if I was in a hurry I would put in a sheet of foundation.

 

[rolande]

View attachment 29670

I was recently looking at a similar one from the US, the cost being negligible compared to the time saved.

Like pargyle I normally use a drill but have recently been using one of the single eye punches commonly available, a decent enough piece of kit after I threw away the needle and replaced it with a 30mm panel pin filed to size.

 

[pargyle]

View attachment 29670

Blimey... that's a piece of kit ! And a half !!! Does it work ?