Nucleus method of swarm control

[Black Comb]

I'm thinking this might be the way to go in future with big brood boxes. Less equipment needed and less lifting.

Anyone use it? What are the pros and cons?

 

[Poly Hive]

I do.

I take off a four brood frame nuc with the Q and leave the youngest open cell to get on with it.

Variation. As above but also a nuc with a sealed cell if any or an open one, and let them get on with it. Total 2 nucs and a young cell in the parent.

Works for me.

PH

 

[trapperman]

This is what i did, albeit by accident, and has worked fine, just enough to hold the original colony back a bit and increase numbers two.

 

[Hombre]

I was going to do this too, while making it into two



Me also.​

.

 

[freethorpe bees]

Do you then put the nuc in place of the original hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

four brood frame nuc with the Q

Do you then put the nuc in place of the original hive?

FB,

Not a lot of space if all the flying bees transfer as well, nowhere much to put all the nectar they suddenly cram in.

Or not a good idea if you want to keep the old queen in a confined space.

So, no, you don't.

The simplicity of the normal brood box A/S is that when completed and the new queen is laying a good pattern and has good manners, it is a simple step to unite with a sheet of newspaper - without having to resort to other kit (eg a half sized roof board or even another sized box - the nuc) and there are no worries re rain getting in (like todays weather) - or retain the extra colony, should you wish to increase.

You had not thought it through, had you?

Regards, RAB

 

[Black Comb]

FB. this is the method.

On finding queen cells (none of which are sealed) during a regular inspection proceed as follows…

Nucleus method – making up the nuc
1. Put a frame of food plus bees into nuc box (check for queen cells & remove)
2. Find the queen and put her and the frame she is on in the nuc box. Remove all queen cells from this frame. There should also be a small amount of brood on this comb
3. Shake in bees from two more frames
4. Close with a dummy board
5. Block the entrance with grass and place the nuc to one side (bees should release themselves after 24-48hrs)
6. Feed the nucleus if necessary
This will keep the old queen as a back-up if the new queen should fail.

Nucleus method – the colony
1. Check the combs in the colony carefully. Remove only very large, nearly sealed queen cells
2. Pick an open queen cell with a larva, in a good position, and mark on the frame
3. Fill up any gaps with spare frames and close up the colony
Nucleus method – one week later
1. Check the marked frame for the chosen queen cell, don’t shake the frame! If the chosen queen cell is missing or damaged choose another sealed queen cell
2. Remove all other queen cells from that frame
3. Shake bees from all other frames and remove all other queen cells

Leave the colony 3 weeks and then check for a laying queen

Build up nucleus into a colony or unite later
Never leave more than one queen cell in a colony!

(Info from a RBI)

I think item 3 - shake all the bees from all the other frames -is the part that might be best done when neighbours are not out and about.

 

[Poly Hive]

You start the thread by asking if it is suitable then pop back up with the methodology (not all of which I agree with BTW) so what's the score here?

PH

 

[Black Comb]

Score is that I have not used it and wanted some comments from others who may have done.

I laid out one methodology in response to FB.

It's a discussion forum, I learn from these discussions.

I would welcome your comments on the methodology.

 

[Poly Hive]

So for you this is theoretical? And based on RBI info... cough. OK

On finding queen cells (none of which are sealed) during a regular inspection proceed as follows… And if they are sealed?

Nucleus method – making up the nuc
1. Put a frame of food plus bees into nuc box (check for queen cells & remove) No need to remove q cells
2. Find the queen and put her and the frame she is on in the nuc box. Remove all queen cells from this frame. There should also be a small amount of brood on this comb No need to remove q cells
3. Shake in bees from two more frames
4. Close with a dummy board
5. Block the entrance with grass and place the nuc to one side (bees should release themselves after 24-48hrs)
6. Feed the nucleus if necessary
This will keep the old queen as a back-up if the new queen should fail.

So we have one and a dot of brood frames in here. Not nearly enough, this queen is fit to work on so give her a decent chance. I give them three frames of brood which also helps to cool down the parent colony.

Nucleus method – the colony
1. Check the combs in the colony carefully. Remove only very large, nearly sealed queen cells Remove ALL q cells bar one open one, and the youngest one you can find.
2. Pick an open queen cell with a larva, in a good position, and mark on the frame See above
3. Fill up any gaps with spare frames and close up the colony Place foundation frames on either side of the brood, not in the middle please.
Nucleus method – one week later
1. Check the marked frame for the chosen queen cell, don’t shake the frame! If the chosen queen cell is missing or damaged choose another sealed queen cell No reason for this.Unless seriously clumsy.
2. Remove all other queen cells from that frame
3. Shake bees from all other frames and remove all other queen cells

Leave the colony 3 weeks and then check for a laying queen

Build up nucleus into a colony or unite later
Never leave more than one queen cell in a colony!

No doubt some RBI's are very good but the title does not ensure anything bar disease expertise.

PH

 

[Black Comb]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Poly Hive]

Welcome.

However it's not my thoughts it's what I practise.

PH

 

[freethorpe bees]

RAB, I did think there wouldn't be room for the flying bees so don't be cheeky! I have only had experience of an AS into a normal sized brood box but think the nuc idea would be a good one for next year.

Thanks for the advice, I'll print up this thread and keep it for next season!

FB

 

[Ambodach]

PH et al. - Please see my number of posts ! Many years of keeping but nowt else.

What does RBI stand for ?

And I fail to understand the thinking behind "No need to remove q cells" ? Surely leaving them in the nuc is just inviting the nuc to swarm ? Or is it that the 'old' queen or the bees themselves will destroy them because this is now such a small colony ?

Rob

 

[oliver90owner]

I can nearly answer that one.

Is it local bee inspector , or maybe regional big-wig inspector?

(It's that 'complaining recently about acronyms' PH doing it again to others!!

Regards, RAB

 

[Black Comb]

RBI - Regional Bee Inspector who are full time employees, as opposed to Seasonal Bee Inspectors who only work the summer months.

I posted this because to my lazy mind it looks quite easy on the face of it but in beekeeping things are not always as easy as they look.

Will also be cheaper, nuc boxes lot less cost than full hive.

 

[Artisan]

I am trying to figure out the extra hives/nuc boxes & general kit I will need for next year.
Have been working on the rough assumption for every 2 complete hives for colonies to have 1 spare hive for AS etc..
Should I be looking at complete hives to equal the number of colonies I want to keep and lots of nuc boxes
to carry out AS's & increase?

My question has been triggered by your comments Poly. Do you have a ratio of complete hives/spare hives/nuc boxes?

Peter