Nothing has gone as planned

[8ace]

Did AS Tuesday inspected today. Feeder had leaked a little or maybe I had spilled some. Old queen on old site in new hive...... Can't see her at all looks like no new brood has been laid sugar feed looks like its all hung up in the new comb that's been drawn two queen cells found which I took down(couldn't find any info on what to do with these so took them down) looked through box again still no queen.

Old box on new site the big QC I saved has gone.......yes gone. Only thing I can think of here is that there was a cell exactly the same size mirrored on the back of the same frame and they didn't like the fact I'd disturbed that one. Had to take down about 15 new emergency cells leaving the best one so I have some sort of chance with this hive.

All in all very unsuccessfully so far. No honey they seem to be good at making bees but not honey. Perhaps I should just requeen both hives all a bit crap really

 

[Finman]

.
Such happens. Bees struggle against nursing. Some does it to the bitter end.

 

[8ace]

I guess I leave it a week see what the situation is then. there should be no more qc's pulled in the new position as its 4 days since the queen was in there. If she behaves and gets mated all good see what happens I guess.

In the hive which had the queen in it (even though I couldn't find her she may be there somewhere and been laying in the old frame that came with her?) Only time will tell I guess.

Worst case scenario I'll have to merge the two hives at some point and probably re queen.

Any thoughts?
What is the latest I can requeen?

 

[Finman]

.
Any thoughts?
Buy a good laying Queen and stop waiting. IT takes too long that Queen cell starts to lay. And the quality of bees may be what ever. Hardly good.

But keep your virgin if you want that struggle continues next summer....

To be continued....
.

 

[8ace]

.
Any thoughts?
Buy a good laying Queen and stop waiting. IT takes too long that Queen cell starts to lay. And the quality of bees may be what ever. Hardly good.

.

Only problem with that is I'm not going to be around for a week so the earliest I could do that is next weekend what type of queen would you recommend?

 

[dexter's shed]

I've seen a few failed A/S post's of late, and when I replied to the last one, I was shot down for needing to read the books again, but in all honesty, I still think I'm correct, anyway it works for me.

surely in a real swarm, the queen leaves the hive, yes or no ??

so I remove queen with lots of bees into a new nuc with empty undrawn frames and one frame of stores and move that away from the old hive, 10ft or so, that's it, flying bees return to old hive, old hive is left with queen cells

a few people said that's the wrong way round to do it, but have seen lots of youtube videos showing it done that way,

 

[Finman]

so I remove queen with lots of bees into a new nuc with empty undrawn frames and one frame of stores and move that away from the old hive, 10ft or so, that's it, flying bees return to old hive, old hive is left with queen cells
,

That is the way I have done it 35 years. Gradually I noticed that foundations give best results.

I have Carniolans 10 years and they were eager to swarm. I noticed that they did not obey false swarming as well as Italians.

I have been splitted down too when I have told how ho do it. Actually I read it from a Brittish beekeeping book.

.

 

[Finman]

surely in a real swarm, the queen leaves the hive, yes or no ??

,

Of course swarm has a Queen. If not, it returns to home.

When Queen is clipped, it is often vanished into lawn. Then you must make an AS with Queen cells.

 

[dexter's shed]

That is the way I have done it 35 years. Gradually I noticed that foundations give best results.


I have been splitted down too when I have told how ho do it. Actually I read it from a British beekeeping book.

.

thank you fin, we agree on something at last, here's the last post, where lots of members keep old queen in old hive in old location, not correct in my book

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34087

 

[Obee1]

I've seen a few failed A/S post's of late, and when I replied to the last one, I was shot down for needing to read the books again, but in all honesty, I still think I'm correct, anyway it works for me.

surely in a real swarm, the queen leaves the hive, yes or no ??

so I remove queen with lots of bees into a new nuc with empty undrawn frames and one frame of stores and move that away from the old hive, 10ft or so, that's it, flying bees return to old hive, old hive is left with queen cells

a few people said that's the wrong way round to do it, but have seen lots of youtube videos showing it done that way,

I agree with you Dexter. It seems logical that the queen should be removed from original location. However as the bees who instigate swarming are forager bees really you would need to take the hive 3 miles away to keep foragers and queen together and mimic a swarm as much as possible? Do you feed your moved queen apart from that frame of stores? They have lost foragers so won't have any incoming food for some weeks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

where lots of members keep old queen in old hive in old location, not correct in my book

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=34087

Maybe not in yours but Pagden is a tried and tested method and it does work if you do it properly.

AS by making a nuc....your method.... works too as do a few other variations.
Horses for courses.

8ace, how old were the QCs in the AS? Should you have spotted them when you moved the queen into the new box? That's why they went, still have urge to swarm, still have the bees and you left them with a new queen in the making.
I always go back into the AS 2 days after I do it as I too don't spot early QCs.

Don't worry about quality of queen from the emergency cells. Her calibre depends much on the quality of her feeding( and you have lots of nurse bees and eggs from which they were made). The bees re-engineer the comb so that the cell is plenty big enough.

I would re-queen the AS. Get a nice Buckfast from Hivemaker.

 

[dexter's shed]

I agree with you Dexter. It seems logical that the queen should be removed from original location. However as the bees who instigate swarming are forager bees really you would need to take the hive 3 miles away to keep foragers and queen together and mimic a swarm as much as possible? Do you feed your moved queen apart from that frame of stores? They have lost foragers so won't have any incoming food for some weeks.

It all depends on the day of the week, as a night worker my days are free to do bee stuff, but I only visit my woodland at weekends, so this A/S got left in my garden rather than moving, I find that not all the foragers go back to the old hive, some stay and re orientate even though only feet away from the old hive, I feed once, and that's it, around 2ltrs

https://youtu.be/l1Ra9OKsrjQ

 

[Erichalfbee]

It seems logical that the queen should be removed from original location. However as the bees who instigate swarming are forager bees really you would need to take the hive 3 miles away to keep foragers and queen together and mimic a swarm as much as possible? Do you feed your moved queen apart from that frame of stores? They have lost foragers so won't have any incoming food for some weeks.

No need to take queen that far. She is with hive bees and her foragers won't swarm, immediately, as they have no queen.
You have to shake in lots of nurse bees and maybe go back the next day to add more.
I found you do need to feed for a while

 

[8ace]

Maybe not in yours but Pagden is a tried and tested method and it does work if you do it properly.

AS by making a nuc....your method.... works too as do a few other variations.
Horses for courses.

8ace, how old were the QCs in the AS? Should you have spotted them when you moved the queen into the new box? That's why they went, still have urge to swarm, still have the bees and you left them with a new queen in the making.
I always go back into the AS 2 days after I do it as I too don't spot early QCs.

Don't worry about quality of queen from the emergency cells. Her calibre depends much on the quality of her feeding( and you have lots of nurse bees and eggs from which they were made). The bees re-engineer the comb so that the cell is plenty big enough.

I would reckon the AS. Get a nice Buckfast from Hivemaker.

I'm not 100% that she has gone she may have laid in the frame that went with her as I can rarely find her she's very illusive there's still a lot of bees there if she has gone she has not taken many bees with her the foragers have only drawn out about 2 frames which look to be full of sugar syrup. I took the queen cells down in case she is in there some where and hoped it would calm down. Maybe they were small that I missed them but I cleared that frame off and went through it with a fine tooth comb. More likely emergency cells from young brood I thought.

I will see in a week and get new queen

 

[8ace]

Came back today after a horrendous 6.5 hr journey from sheppey just checked the AS hive on the old site..... About 10 more qcs sealed no sign of queen still seems to be little in the way of bee loss???? No sign of queen but a full frame of sealed brood. So I don't know what to make of it all there is no way I missed any of the qcs in either of the inspections at AS or 4 days after. Anyway was gonna nip up to maisemoore to get a queen tomorrow if needed but do I need more headache of them not taking another queen? I have left the largest QC in there and destroyed the others.

On the flip side they have built out and filled about 7 of the new foundation frames so they have good potential I guess. Also stuck my head very very briefly into the other (parent hive is it?) And they were also looking very full so I have qe'd both and slung a super on each

 

[Ely]

Did AS Tuesday inspected today. Feeder had leaked a little or maybe I had spilled some. Old queen on old site in new hive...... Can't see her at all looks like no new brood has been laid sugar feed looks like its all hung up in the new comb that's been drawn two queen cells found which I took down(couldn't find any info on what to do with these so took them down) looked through box again still no queen.

Old box on new site the big QC I saved has gone.......yes gone. Only thing I can think of here is that there was a cell exactly the same size mirrored on the back of the same frame and they didn't like the fact I'd disturbed that one. Had to take down about 15 new emergency cells leaving the best one so I have some sort of chance with this hive.

All in all very unsuccessfully so far. No honey they seem to be good at making bees but not honey. Perhaps I should just requeen both hives all a bit crap really

None of my virgins were mated out of 3 colonies after an AS. I put it down to the awful weather of May. I bought new queens. I needed better stock and this was the kick up the bum I needed to part with the cash. Such is life.