Not drawing brood foundation, filling supers after AS ?

[shudderdun]

Hi,

Did a first time (for me) A/S on Sunday, all went well, then put 1-1 feed on QC and brood hive and put the original, almost half full super above the QE on the original hive.

I didn’t have many drawn foundation brood frames to replace the missing ones that went over to the hive with the QC and brood, so had to use five undrawn frames.

Thing is, the bees haven’t really bothered drawing the five foundation frames but have been more interested in filling the super up with honey, which is almost full now.

Should I remove the super and store it for now and put a feed on in its place to hopefully help with what is already coming in to get them to draw the five brood frames ???

Also found a new QC in the middle of one of the brood frames, Q was still there, didn’t know what to do, so I removed the cell. Opp’s, maybe I shouldn’t have done that as I was later wondering if they were not happy with Q and this was a superceedure cell ??? However there were still newly laid eggs.

Any advice much appreciated on both queries.

Thank You.

P.S. I do have two other colonies if this helps in any way with the above.

 

[oliver90owner]

A/S - queen to old site with a frame of brood and foundation plus the super (with bees).

What is the problem of placing one brood frame into the parent colony?

If you have moved over more than five frames with the old queen, little wonder the bees are still in swarm mode!

Get a copy of the Padgen method of A/S and follow it! Sooo simple.

 

[galileo]

I'm assuming you mean that you've made up a new box with queen on frame of open brood, along with 5 drawn comb from a store and 5 foundation?

If they have free comb for the queen to get cracking on, they're not going to be too bothered about drawing more just yet. The more pressing need will be to get stores in while there's a flow on. If we get a June gap this year, it'll be standing them in good stead to have plenty of stores to feed the brood as it develops.

If the queen is laying, as you say, then I'd not be too concerned about the removed cell, provided of course that she's not firing blanks and laying up drones. If she is, you'll find out soon enough but it's probably more likely to be a case of the swarm pheremone on the frame that went in with her, keeping them thinking along the line of flitting.

I'd leave the super as it is, check for worker cappings and a good pattern, removing any new queen cells along the way.

The above is of course predicated upon my correctly understanding the hive makeup.

 

[shudderdun]

Yes Galileo, thats about it.

I now understand what you are saying regarding the store they are putting into the supers.

I only left a frame and a bit of brood with the old Q, plus of course the flying bees and a combination of brood frames as you have stated, didnt think this was enough brood to make the bees want to swarm, maybe Oliver misunderstood me.

Thank you both for your advice.

 

[Finman]

Hi,

Did a first time (for me) A/S on Sunday, all went well, then put 1-1 feed on QC and brood hive and put the original, almost half full super above the QE on the original hive.

I didn’t have many drawn foundation brood frames to replace the missing ones that went over to the hive with the QC and brood, so had to use five undrawn frames.

Thing is, the bees haven’t really bothered drawing the five foundation frames but have been more interested in filling the super up with honey, which is almost full now.

Should I remove the super and store it for now and put a feed on in its place to hopefully help with what is already coming in to get them to draw the five brood frames ???

Also found a new QC in the middle of one of the brood frames, Q was still there,
.

I do not know what you are doing.

AS-hive: it sounds that the colony is too small to fill the whole box.
Give to it one larva frame, one food frames and get more foundations.
If the colony is too small, use dummy board. Perhaps 5 foundations are enough then.

Or give to old hive the larva frame and take a frame of emerging bees from old hive.

.Queen cells still on the frane= the swarming fever is still on. YOu must put therm to draw foundations.

.

 

[fiftyjon]

I'm assuming you mean that you've made up a new box with queen on frame of open brood, along with 5 drawn comb from a store and 5 foundation?

If they have free comb for the queen to get cracking on, they're not going to be too bothered about drawing more just yet. The more pressing need will be to get stores in while there's a flow on. If we get a June gap this year, it'll be standing them in good stead to have plenty of stores to feed the brood as it develops.

If the queen is laying, as you say, then I'd not be too concerned about the removed cell, provided of course that she's not firing blanks and laying up drones. If she is, you'll find out soon enough but it's probably more likely to be a case of the swarm pheremone on the frame that went in with her, keeping them thinking along the line of flitting.

I'd leave the super as it is, check for worker cappings and a good pattern, removing any new queen cells along the way.

The above is of course predicated upon my correctly understanding the hive makeup.

If the super is filling up then get another on. The foraging bees are not using the nectar they're bringing in for the brood so they store it.

Providing the original queen is laying and has space to lay leave it be.

 

[shudderdun]

Thanks fiftyjon, I will keep an eye on the super, do what needs to be done as you suggest, then open them up in a couple of days (might have to be Monday) and see what Q is doing.

The colony was strong before the split and there is lots af activity going on in front of both the hives I did the AS on.

Kind Regards.

 

[Skyhook]

Yes Galileo, thats about it.

I now understand what you are saying regarding the store they are putting into the supers.

I only left a frame and a bit of brood with the old Q, plus of course the flying bees and a combination of brood frames as you have stated, didnt think this was enough brood to make the bees want to swarm, maybe Oliver misunderstood me.

Thank you both for your advice.

As I understand it, you moved all the brood frames bar one into another box. The usual (and easier method) is to move the hive to one side, put a new floor and BB in it's place, and move the queen into that. Your 'original hive' is therefore the opposoite of what it would usually be, hence the confusion.

The box with the queen in it should be made up with foundation only- the need to draw comb is part of what makes them think they have swarmed. As Finman says, remove the drawn comb (apart from the one with brood in) and leave them just foundation.

.

 

[shudderdun]

Yes Skyhook that what I did, just left the one frame of brood with the old Q and gave them a mixture of foundation of which 5 where undrawn, the original super went above this BB seperated by a QE, as I explained (probable not very well, sorry) they just more or less left the undrawn foundation and started filling the supers, maybe I will see otherwise when I next look in.

I also understand what Galileo is explaining and see his point.

Thanks Chaps !