Not a lecture......a lesson

[Pete D]

Please do not think that by constantly removing queen cells that you will stop your bees from swarming.

Today I am frustrated to find that a local beekeeper who started with a Nuc last year now has a hopelessly queenless colony. She rang me for a second opinion as she has no brood. She attended a beginners course last year and a follow on course this spring which included swarming management.

On looking at her colony today I confirmed she had no brood, also that the bees were not their usual happy selves. I asked her when she last saw brood and the tale came out that about 5 weeks ago she found queen cells and removed them all. She has then been inspecting twice a week and removing all queen cells that she finds. She works full time so is not at home during the day. She has not seen the queen for 3 weeks and has no brood in any stage.

I told her its quite simple, you missed a queen cell and they have swarmed. You then systematically tore down the colonies every attempt to replace the queen untill they no longer could. This has resulted in a queenless colony that will now dwindle and die out.

She asked me her options now, I suggested when they have died out give the hive to me and take up bird watching.

I then suggested that she give me a call when she has worked out what options she has.

I feel reluctant to solve this for her and allow her to carry on keeping bees,
is that wrong of me ?

 

[meetballuk]

bit harsh but can see your frustration. some ppl get one idea in their head and run with it.
least you know she will never do that again!
to late for a frame of eggs or a bought queen?

 

[thenovice]

yes, very wrong.

I do agree she is clue less but we all are up to a certain point. I'd rather have a go at her instructor...

 

[oliver90owner]

I reckon it might be a bit harsh. Unless she is a non-learner and non-thinker, of course. There are some less than competent beeks out there that might advocate that course of action to learners. We see it happens - time and time again - becausevit comes up so regularly on the forum.

If she has learned her lesson, and has a good chance of becoming a beekeeper, she deserves one more chance.

RAB

 

[Pete D]

Being the nice chap I am I will of course sort this colonies lack of a queen by close of play today. It will do it first and foremost for the bees.

I am not ing her just frustrated about her apparent lack of knowledge. Her instructor is very good.

I will invite her to come with me for a few hours at the weekend to increase her knowledge as we can chat whilst going through some hives.

 

[Meg]

Good luck Pete!

I am sorting out a similar scenarion this week, only this one has been keeping bees for several years now.

First nuc survived into second year and not more. Gap of a year, then second nuc again through winter and into fab colony this spring - now queenless as per your post.

How many times do you help people out?

Meg

 

[Tom Bick]

She has made a mistake that is not in question. If she will learn from it all well and good but for me if she was local I would be offering help right now and future help if needed. I help someone who apart from a few months break has been keeping bees for three years and still asked me basic questions, I duly attend when possible and when requested and keep getting asked what am I looking for and this past week if I give them another super will that stop swarming. I feel I have to help because without it things could go bad and give beekerping a bad name on my patch and besides she is nice.

 

[Edwardking]

The danger with your approach is that she stops having you mentor her, and goes it alone. Then the bees are in the lap of the gods regarding survival.
The old saying rings true: if you think it's expensive hiring a professional, wait till you hire an amateur.

 

[Ben90]

Apologise for telling her to give up beekeeping. It was out of line and yes, it's a stupid thing to do, even at my experience level I know that's a stupid thing to do with your colony. I've made my own mistakes, granted, not as silly as that, but I've grown from them and have more experience and knowledge as a result. At least now she knows that beekeeping is about more than knocking down queen cells. If she decides to get a new colony then hopefully she'll know that she needs to brush up on swarm control.

There's no point in giving someone a "lesson" in their hobby and telling them to give up their hobby in the same breath.

 

[Pete D]

I dont mentor this lady, I help her when she rings or when I am doing something like varroa treatment in August or Oxallic I ring her and ask if she has done hers or has plans too, invariably I do it for her. I supply her with treatments and feed as required because if I didnt it would not get done.

She has a mentor who lives closer to her than me and who has been keeping bees far longer than my paltry 3 years. She rings me cos I am always willing and helpful.

I mentored 3 new beekeepers last year and am helping them in this their 2nd and more busier year. I am also mentoring 3 new additional beekeepers this year in their 1st year (only 2 have bees so far). I look after my 30+ colonies and work full time. I am happy to help people who help themselves and adopt a position of I cant do your beekeeping for them, but can watch, listen, advise and help in anyway I can.
Its just frustrating when you do whatever you can to help and it still goes wrong.
Anyway now leaving work again to give her colony a frame of eggs from one of mine. At the weekend I may be able to give her a virgin queen or unite a swarm into her hive, after checking the test frame and removing queen cells etc.

Was that a rant......................if it was its over.

 

[Ben90]

I dont mentor this lady, I help her when she rings or when I am doing something like varroa treatment in August or Oxallic I ring her and ask if she has done hers or has plans too, invariably I do it for her. I supply her with treatments and feed as required because if I didnt it would not get done.

She has a mentor who lives closer to her than me and who has been keeping bees far longer than my paltry 3 years. She rings me cos I am always willing and helpful.

I mentored 3 new beekeepers last year and am helping them in this their 2nd and more busier year. I am also mentoring 3 new additional beekeepers this year in their 1st year (only 2 have bees so far). I look after my 30+ colonies and work full time. I am happy to help people who help themselves and adopt a position of I cant do your beekeeping for them, but can watch, listen, advise and help in anyway I can.
Its just frustrating when you do whatever you can to help and it still goes wrong.
Anyway now leaving work again to give her colony a frame of eggs from one of mine. At the weekend I may be able to give her a virgin queen or unite a swarm into her hive, after checking the test frame and removing queen cells etc.

Was that a rant......................if it was its over.

If she's being negligent in her beekeeping then that's a different matter. People shouldn't take up a commitment like this unless they're willing to take what it entails, warts and hard work and all.

 

[Hachi]

I dont mentor this lady, I help her when she rings or when I am doing something like varroa treatment in August or Oxallic I ring her and ask if she has done hers or has plans too, invariably I do it for her. I supply her with treatments and feed as required because if I didnt it would not get done.

She has a mentor who lives closer to her than me and who has been keeping bees far longer than my paltry 3 years. She rings me cos I am always willing and helpful.

I mentored 3 new beekeepers last year and am helping them in this their 2nd and more busier year. I am also mentoring 3 new additional beekeepers this year in their 1st year (only 2 have bees so far). I look after my 30+ colonies and work full time. I am happy to help people who help themselves and adopt a position of I cant do your beekeeping for them, but can watch, listen, advise and help in anyway I can.
Its just frustrating when you do whatever you can to help and it still goes wrong.
Anyway now leaving work again to give her colony a frame of eggs from one of mine. At the weekend I may be able to give her a virgin queen or unite a swarm into her hive, after checking the test frame and removing queen cells etc.

Was that a rant......................if it was its over.

It goes wrong because of two things Pete, her lack of understanding of beekeeping and your lifeline she hangs onto knowing she doesn't need to think about is cos good old Pete will do it and secondly; your allowing her to do it. She needs tough love buddy. They're her bee's, she manages them simples......

 

[alanf]

I dont mentor this lady, I help her when she rings or when I am doing something like varroa treatment in August or Oxallic I ring her and ask if she has done hers or has plans too, invariably I do it for her. I supply her with treatments and feed as required because if I didnt it would not get done...

So she was reluctant to take the initiative. Now she has, she misunderstood and it's gone horribly wrong. Even less likely to venture anything herself in future.

Not the most diplomatic way of phrasing it, but the question does need to be asked: is beekeeping really her thing? It needs to be made clear that you won't be able to do it all for her forever. There's a level of responsibility for the bees that goes with taking them on. Was it something like half new members don't get past the first couple of years? Not everybody who starts finds it's for them.

 

[REDWOOD]

Give her a copy of this;
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf
I cant emphasise how important this little booklet is to new beekeepers

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

So she was reluctant to take the initiative. Now she has, she misunderstood and it's gone horribly wrong. Even less likely to venture anything herself in future.

Not the most diplomatic way of phrasing it, but the question does need to be asked: is beekeeping really her thing? It needs to be made clear that you won't be able to do it all for her forever. There's a level of responsibility for the bees that goes with taking them on. Was it something like half new members don't get past the first couple of years? Not everybody who starts finds it's for them.

When someone is learning how to do something they should first watch someone who is competent doing the task while it is explained. Next they need to undertake the task under direct step by step instruction. On the third lesson they undertake the task by themselves under supervision and the instructor offers comments as necessary, either to encourage and confirm the action is correct or to correct an action when needed.
It seems, from what you wrote, you are taking over rather than helping. This has the effect of reducing competence by making a person feel incompetent. Also by providing her with the treatments and feed she has no need to think about providing them herself and so a spiral of incompetence has been created.

 

[Pete D]

It seems, from what you wrote, you are taking over rather than helping. This has the effect of reducing competence by making a person feel incompetent. Also by providing her with the treatments and feed she has no need to think about providing them herself and so a spiral of incompetence has been created.

It isn't my job to help her or train her, I don't really even know her, she isn't a member of our association. I live near her and she saw my honey for sale sign, stopped and bought some and told me she had bees, we swapped numbers just in case either of us needed help.
I asked her about varroa treatments last summer and she didn't think it was necessary as she had seen no mites, I took over by strongly suggesting that treatment should be given and gave her some of mine and obliged when she asked if I could show her how to apply it.
In December when I asked her about oxalic she said she was not going too as she wanted to be more natural in her beekeeping. I told her I was doing all mine and she then asked if I could do hers at the same time, I did and removed her apiguard trays at the same time and gave her some fondant.
I helped her do her first inspection of the year and have advised her on all sorts of things like when to put supers on, changing some brood frames and regular inspections. I have lent her a book, smoker, mouse guard and spare hive to do an AS if she needed too.
Tonight I ran a virgin queen directly onto a frame covered in bees and they seemed to accept her without a fuss, we watched for a couple of minutes. I have asked her to leave the hive alone for a couple of weeks. Whilst I was there I took one of the two completely undrawn supers off as there was not the bees to justify it.

Now I find her incompetence is my fault.

I best leave her to get on with it and keep,out of her way

 

[BeeJayBee]

It isn't my job to help her or train her, I don't really even know her, she isn't a member of our association.

Isn't there anybody from her association who should be giving her some help. She's done BKA training, probably paid for it as well, don't they provide follow up support?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Now I find her incompetence is my fault.

I best leave her to get on with it and keep,out of her way

Damned if you do and damned if you don't Pete, I'm sorry but I agree with your first post. There's quite a few people around (here as well as in 'real life') who think as long as they keep knocking down QC's they're safe - it's laziness, period. Sounds to me like she's the kind of person who will do what she likes whatever she's told. It's her mentor that needs a good talking to (but then maybe he has given up as well!!

 

[Ben90]

It isn't my job to help her or train her, I don't really even know her, she isn't a member of our association.

Is she a member of ANY association? Have you tried getting her to read books or go on a beginners' course?

 

[VEG]

There are only so many times you can try to help some people you then realise you are