Newbee help needed with feeding please!

[juliabusybee]

I have some questions hope someone can help !!
Some beekeepers, I have read, leave a full super of honey above the brood box for the winter stores. I have one available for this purpose if required. I have fed the bees with sugar syrup which they have stored in the brood box so I am happy they have stores for the winter. So do they need this too and where would it go? On top of the crown board I presume with one of the feeder holes left open?

Or should I just leave the super of stores off and if necessary feed fondant if they need it later, or as someone suggested I could leave a contact feeder on (inside eke) as a backup for them. We live in the Highlands so it can get very cold and winters are very long!!!

thanks in anticipation....
Julia

 

[the naked beekeeper]

How strong is the colony?

Have you hefted the brood box? It should be difficult to lift.

Have you taken any honey from the colony at all?

When and how did this colony come to you?

When you've answered these, you then need to decide what to do with this super. Is it full of honey you want for yourself? Or are you just keeping it for the bees?

If you do want to add it, don't put it above the crown board as the bees won't go up there when it's cold, to break the cluster for some honey. It would kill them in trying.
Make it a part of their hive and put it straight on, or straight under, the brood box.

Do not leave a contact feeder on through the winter. The bees won't be able to turn it into stores without using even more energy to convert it and it is likely to ferment anyway.

If you want, leave a block of candy on top of the crownboard with a slit in it and cover it in a plastic bag or margarine tub. The bees can use that straight away and as it's directly accessible to their hive.

 

[oliver90owner]

Firstly, the crownboard is the top-most board on the hive, with only the roof, which protects the hive from the weather, above.

If you consider it prudent to give them some extra winter supplies it will certainly not go above the crownboard.

Some put the super below the brood, but I always followed the bees natural instincts and left the stores above the broodnest. Your choice. Likely that they will leave you with an empty super in the spring, if nadired. That means the stores left in the brood box above will be sugar syrup.

Left as a super of stores the possibility is there may be brood in the box by the time you inspect in spring. Apart from then having a few shallow frames which have been brooded in, there is little problem that a queen excluder will not sort out in 3 weeks (queen downstairs and await all brood to emerge above). The remaining stores upstairs would be proper honey.

As I say, your choice.

If you are using an open mesh floor, general practice is the crownboard needs to be solid (closed) and insulated over. Most of my hives have a simple sheet of ply as a crownboard. I do not normally feed throughout the winter as I run 14 x 12s (approx equivalent to a brood plus a super).

A simple sheet because I run with top bee space. Your's is presumably bottom space.

Regards, RAB

 

[AndreaW]

Just wanted to add as wasn't obvious to me before. If you do keep the super on with the brood box for winter stores, don't put a QE inbetween otherwise the queen might get left behind as the bees move round the boxes. You don't want to lose her - she could get chilled or starve.

 

[juliabusybee]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

I have answered some questions below with a bit more background.

I have I think quite a strong colony and have had the nuc since mid July.

The brood box is difficult to lift.

I havn't taken any honey off.

As the bees were very active I put a super on in August and the bees put a bit of honey on one of the frames. Then I did a silly thing and started feeding them in early September with the super on and so they stored all the sugar syrup in the super and not in the brood box. Also this syrup is probably tainted with apiguard as I had strips in the brood box too which is another goof! So I took off the super and fed more syrup so they stored this in the brood box. So now I have this spare super (10 frames) that I don't know what to do with but I am just keeping it for the bees.

I will take your advice and not feed with contact feeder.

Might I be encouraging "chimneying" if I put the super back on? Could I feed this super of sugar syrup more safely in the spring?? I understand about the possible problems of the super being brooded in and getting the bees back down etc.


Happy to hear more ....thanks.

Julia

 

[AndreaW]

Julia
I have done pretty much the same as you Mine was also a July nuc, I fed them to encourage them to draw out comb (suggested by mentor), was then a bit unsure whether there was honey or syrup in the frames! I then needed to apiguard them and decided to leave super with them, fed them a bit more.

I now have a super which was quite full but which has been treated with apiguard so no point in taking it away from them. I have left it as brood and a half and was reassured that some of my division members do that anyway. I am working on the basis that they can die of starvation but not from having too much food

 

[juliabusybee]

Hi Andrea,
Thats a relief.... I'm not alone!!

So thats decision made then, I will put the super back on top of the brood and leave it on over the winter as food for them. It seems the best option as at the moment its just sitting in the cupboard doing nothing.

Thanks
Julia

 

[Swarm]

I keep one super that is always for the bees. Not brood and half during season just over winter, that super is never extracted. I have under supered this year for the first time, up until now the super has gone on top. Even through these last two winters, the super has been untouched.
The theory is that the bees will shift the stores up into the BB. We'll see.

 

[adrian wilford]

there is some idea that honey has not enough water content when trying to use it when its gone hard as rock, where-as sugar is more easily manipulated/taken to feed themselves in winter. i used to keep a super of honey on, they worked hard for it so they deserve it, was always my thought until many older beeks kept reminding me of the facts known to them.
i dont like brood in supers, more suspect to wax moth, and in spring more manipulation with 2 boxes on, or put the super on top of a crown board with hole in so the bees take the honey down.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Julia,
As you have the spare super of sugary/apiguardy* honey, I would personally put the super under the brood box. (Undersupering). No queen excluder.

From bottom to top you would have
Floor
Super
Brood box
Crown board
Roof.

Come the first inspection the super should be empty and can be removed.

Have a read of this. http://www.norfolkbee.co.uk/beekeepers-resource/winter-preparation

The fun of beekeeping is that there is never - it seems - a hard and fast answer to anything!



*Not sure if that's a real word!

 

[oliver90owner]

I have left it as brood and a half and was reassured that some of my division members do that anyway

Andrea,

Are you sure those that run their hives as a brood + a super are using commercials? It seems like an awful lot of stores for the winter!

Far too much for the early spring, too I would think. OK, you are going to leave it on but please remember, in spring, that all this 'thymolated' sugar syrup will end up somewhere you don't really want it, unless you are careful.

Regards, RAB

 

[juliabusybee]

Hi hebeegeebee !
Thanks for advice. I think reading your link theres alot of really good advantages to putting the super underneath. One quick question before I do this......at the moment my hive is laid out with the frames the cold way round. Would it be best to keep this the same and not mess about with changing them to "the warm way"?
thanks
Julia

 

[AndreaW]

I have left it as brood and a half and was reassured that some of my division members do that anyway

Andrea,

Are you sure those that run their hives as a brood + a super are using commercials? It seems like an awful lot of stores for the winter!

Far too much for the early spring, too I would think. OK, you are going to leave it on but please remember, in spring, that all this 'thymolated' sugar syrup will end up somewhere you don't really want it, unless you are careful.

Regards, RAB

Hi RAB, yes the main person who recommended brood and half keeps commercials (reason I specifically asked her) and has been for 30 odd years.
I originally thought she would say no just overwinter on bb but she surprised me, brood and a half is her normal over wintering.

She is a very prolific queen. I am not worried and quite happy to leave that super as stores. If needs be, if it hasn't been used, I will take it off in the spring when I put on the proper honey supers and save it for the June gap - depending on its capping state Would that work?

I will need them to draw out foundation in the spring anyway as only one super with drawn comb - hopefully they can utilise it all in providing energy for wax working