new queen, proven layer for 3 weeks, sudden drop off,

[pargyle]

Crumbs ... I've read this thread three times and I still can't make head or tail of what you have in the two hives or what you did and when ... it's all a bit confusing. If you want some help then could I suggest:

1. A description of the two hives BEFORE you started manipulating (preferably not in txt spk as we are mostly geriatriics !).

2. A chronology of what you did and the dates you did it with some observations of what you saw.

3. The state of the two hives as you think they are now.

WIth this level of logical and simple information you might get someone to give you a handle on what's going on and what your best plan of action is.

As far as I can see, at present, you are suffering from the 'too many cooks' syndrome and messing about with the colonies without a clear idea of what you SHOULD be doing and what NEEDS to be done (if anything ?).

People are not aggressive on here but if you need help they find it frustrating when there is not clear information to work with. Sit down, calmly write down exactly what happened and when and leave the side comments and questions that are largely immaterial at present out ...

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you want some help then could I suggest:

1. A description of the two hives BEFORE you started manipulating (preferably not in txt spk as we are mostly geriatriics !).

2. A chronology of what you did and the dates you did it with some observations of what you saw.

3. The state of the two hives as you think they are now.

WIth this level of logical and simple information you might get someone to give you a handle on what's going on and what your best plan of action is.

As far as I can see, at present, you are suffering from the 'too many cooks' syndrome and messing about with the colonies without a clear idea of what you SHOULD be doing and what NEEDS to be done (if anything ?).

People are not aggressive on here but if you need help they find it frustrating when there is not clear information to work with. Sit down, calmly write down exactly what happened and when and leave the side comments and questions that are largely immaterial at present out ...

Might be a good idea to start a new thread, but try not to muddle information for each colony. We can only read what you've written, and most of us are easily confused!

It doesn't matter where you keep your records, as long as it's clear and consistent, and done in a way that suits you. You need to be able to check your records before an inspection, so you know what to expect when you open the hive, and be able to plan what you should do next - and also so you can tell if things aren't right, or aren't what you expect.

It does sound as if you have done an artificial swarm and are left, somehow, with two hives comprising brood and a half and supers - and that doesn't seem right. If you've lost a swarm from the box containing the old queen, chances are she's gone and you need to wait a good few weeks before new queen starts laying.

Capped brood will continue to develop without any help, as long as it's kept at the right temperature.

Has an experienced beekeeper taken a look at what you've done?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Listen to me. Two wks ago, brood at all stages. Yesterday scattered capped brood. Can't think of what needs abuse there, like. Yes, I am aware there are other forums.

is this the old queen on new foundation or a new mated queen from a QC on old comb

 

[Teemore]

Yes, I'm also confused.... but I'll try to sort through some of what has been posted and hopefully we can help you analyse what has happened.
1. Artificial swarm carried out, moving laying queen and bees into a new box (Box 1).
2. Original/parent colony left with QCs.
3. After 1 week, the positions of Box 1 and Box 2 were swapped and you inspected both Box 1 and Box 2.
4. "Cast" from Box 2
5. Further 2 queen Cells found in Box 2 two weeks after A/S was carried out? - Did you remove these 2 Q/Cs or did you move them into another hive?

When you carried out the original artificial swarm, (creating boxes 1 and 2), where did you place Box 1 with the laying queen? Did you leave this on the site of the original colony or off to one side? (If you got this wrong, your laying queen could have been balled when the hives were swapped around, particularly if her hive was weak)
When you carried out the A/S, did you make any attempt to reduce the number of queen cells in Box 2 in order to reduce the possibility of losing a swarm from Box 2 or did you just leave all 10 capped and uncapped QCs in place to let them swarm?
When you inspected 1 week after starting the A/S, did you see eggs in Box 1 into which you had moved the laying Queen? How many frames of bees were in Box 1 before you swapped the position of the two hives - how strong was it?

Which Box has the sparse pattern of drone brood appearing in worker cells?

In terms of the timing of your observations, it helps to remember that eggs to emergence is 16 days for a Queen, 21 for a worker and 24 for a drone.
When you carried out the initial stage of your A/S you indicated there were 9 capped and one uncapped QCs. A Queen cell is capped at approximately day 8. 14 days after your A/S you still had two capped QCs in one of your hives. You need to consider that these were duds.
Three weeks after your A/S, you would be seeing the last of the brood laid by your original queen emerging in Box 2. Have you seen any new eggs, larvae and sealed worker brood in Box 2?

 

[Tomo]

I have to admit that after reading all of these posts I agree with RAB (shock horror! He is a wise one really...he may not have the best bed side manner but we love him really! And he is very knowledgable).
We need clear concise info please. You say new queen. Did you introduce a mated queen from another supply or is she the new Q that emerged after you left a q cell from the original swarming hive? If so even if your new Q emerged 8 days after AS then she needs at least 3 weeks maybe longer to mature mate settle and lay. Maths does not add up for her to be prolific if she is home grown,however, if an introduced mated Q then that's another story. I did an AS on 2 hives 4 weeks ago, 2 q's emerged same day (after 7 and 2 half days!), one laying well after 3 weeks, no sign of the other yet. We need more info, and please be patient, everyone is on the same side here. We are trying to help but are unable to without clear details.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As I forgot my crossword book at home today, I thought I'd tackle this thread. Wish i hadn't bothered now - my brain's started to bleed. So maybe you should take us through, step by step how you conducted the artificial swarm (ie opened hive, took queen out, put in new box - new box placed X position and so on)
Some of us can be a bit slow you know - especially on Monday mornings with last minute reckies of suspect farmhouses etc. to conduct.

Red queen 2013 is queenright b/c I put a full frame of brood from the new colony into her box. that's box #1.

How does putting a frame of brood into her 'box' make it queenright?

We did the a/s b/c inspection revealed 9 charged (capped) QC and 1 uncapped. We did the simplest thing we have been taught, removed the old queen (2013, red marked) to a new box, .

When you did this 'simplest thing' where did you then place the 'box' with the old queen? did you actually do a Pagden arificial swarm. And what the f..on earth is a A/S B/C?

Box #2 : sounds like I was previous in my eager hopes that the glorious weather the week of artificial swarm and the teensy grubs observed upon insp were enuff indicators of queenright status.

You did the 'A/S B/C' four weeks ago right? so assuming the QC was open that gives you eight days to emergence then time for the queen to get fit for flying, then mated, then settled in before laying. with BIAS that means eggs must have been laid eight days ago. Damn narrow mating window IMHO. And where on earth did you get a frame of brood to give back to the original queen - and why would you have to?

Take a deep breath and start again.
I'll do the same!

 

[aberreef]

Sounds to me like the virgin queen in box 2 hasn't started laying yet. If you have a frame of eggs in box 1, you could do a test by putting it in box 2 to see if the bees build emergency QCs. I bet they don't though

I'd leave box 2 (virgin queen) alone for a few weeks until the queen has had a chance to mate and start laying, other than a test frame there's little to be gained from opening the box IMO

 

[pargyle]

As I forgot my crossword book at home today, I thought I'd tackle this thread. Wish i hadn't bothered now - my brain's started to bleed.

I think we would have more chance with the Times cryptic crossword - at least the clues lead to words that fit the boxes ! The answers are now getting nearly as confusing as the OP's questions ...

 

[openbrackets]

Hi, thanks for responding, it's late now though, so it seems sensible to look through the replies more thoroughly tomorrow to glean the wisdom there enparceled like golden honey under snow white capping.

 

[kevrhcfag]

We did an artificial swarm 4 wks ago, have not marked the queen yet but brood at all stages/types seen, prolific until this week. Laying pattern scattered and v sparse no grubs/eggs seen, capped drone and worker brood sighted. Seemed to have space to lay in, but there is pollen on every frame. We are running brood and a half, with two supers for swarm control and to try to get the comb drawn out asap. This is our second summer beekeeping.

Like others tried to make sense and failed, but since you have said other Queen is marked and this one isn't, you seem to be asking why this "new unmarked queen" has gone off lay.

If the AS was 4 weeks ago.

Cell capped is day 7 or 8
Emerges day 16
At least another week before mated and more to start laying decent.

So impossible to have brood at all stages from this queen.
Capped old brood even grubs is more likely from old queen not new queen (upto this week)
I made up a few Nucs about same time and Queens have just started laying properly last week.
There are only 3 alternatives.
What you have seen is from original Queen.
The new Queen was mated while in cell and was laying at birth.
There was another queen.

As RAB has pointed out numbers just don't add up to what you are saying has happened.

Don't think you are doing yourself any favours.