New brood chamber on top?

[BaconWizard]

So, my understanding is that simply adding another box on-top of a hive (say it's a brood box) can yield a variety of results.
The bees could ignore it, or they could start building comb upwards into it, or they could occupy it and fill it with brood... or even fill it with honey.

My question is, is there a way to encourage the bees to make comb and the queen to start laying there? I did see a youtube vid where the keeper left a "ladder" of comb in there to encourage them-up. But it didn't explain for what purpose and I don't know if it worked. I assume one would remove any honey supers entirely and do this in swarm-season.

Finally, if this is achievable, would it be a convenient way to make a split? (relocate the queen and attendants in the new brood chamber, re-queen the remaining hive) I realise it is not normally done this way... probably there's a good reason why.

 

[pargyle]

So, my understanding is that simply adding another box on-top of a hive (say it's a brood box) can yield a variety of results.
The bees could ignore it, or they could start building comb upwards into it, or they could occupy it and fill it with brood... or even fill it with honey.

My question is, is there a way to encourage the bees to make comb and the queen to start laying there? I did see a youtube vid where the keeper left a "ladder" of comb in there to encourage them-up. But it didn't explain for what purpose and I don't know if it worked. I assume one would remove any honey supers entirely and do this in swarm-season.

Finally, if this is achievable, would it be a convenient way to make a split? (relocate the queen and attendants in the new brood chamber, re-queen the remaining hive) I realise it is not normally done this way... probably there's a good reason why.

Look up Demaree ....

 

[Markthebuilder]

Rodger Paterson recommends putting one over a Qex in order to draw better comb

 

[Poly Hive]

What I have been doing this last twenty years or so is to put the 2nd BB UNDER the first one. I do this when the brood frames number 8 of good areas of brood. I put a couple of brood frames down into the bottom chamber and insert two combs or foundations into the top box and just for good measure add an excluder over the top box and pop on the first super. Keep in mind I am all poly. The following week the top box has 8 frames of brood again and ofter a further couple below as the queens will motor if given the space.

It's simple, it works for me and no faffing about. KISS

PH

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I do roughly as Polyhive - but not at this time of year.

 

[minifrogs]

So, my understanding is that simply adding another box on-top of a hive (say it's a brood box) can yield a variety of results.
The bees could ignore it, or they could start building comb upwards into it, or they could occupy it and fill it with brood... or even fill it with honey.

My question is, is there a way to encourage the bees to make comb and the queen to start laying there? I did see a youtube vid where the keeper left a "ladder" of comb in there to encourage them-up. But it didn't explain for what purpose and I don't know if it worked. I assume one would remove any honey supers entirely and do this in swarm-season.

Finally, if this is achievable, would it be a convenient way to make a split? (relocate the queen and attendants in the new brood chamber, re-queen the remaining hive) I realise it is not normally done this way... probably there's a good reason why.

 

[BaconWizard]

..

I think you managed to quote me but neglected to add your answer there

To other respondents, thanks, very interesting.

I am just a bit surprised, having seen on a number of occasions keepers saying “don’t just stick another box on top” because you might get something other than good honey comb, of which one possibly is brood.
It seems strange to me that this behaviour is not exploited, if it can be, since it requires very minimal disturbance.
But perhaps the only thing we can do reliably is encourage honey, in the top.

 

[Poly Hive]

BW? There are two competing behaviours that have to taken into consideration. When I talk to classes I mention that Queens are "vertically challenged" and I use that phrase as it seems to stick in minds rather well. Given the chance, queens will go up and when there they well.... lay. Bees also want to store honey above the brood nest. Now, if you put a large chamber over the brood nest what will happen is a large part will be used for honey and a smaller part for brood. Neither result is what I am looking for and I was taught this lesson many years ago by the bees when I dipped a toe into double broods which is why I now do what I posted above. I probably could wear my weary fingers to the bone but do try next year yourself and welcome you are to the ensuing mess and weight. Been there and trying to save you the pain. KISS

PH

 

[BaconWizard]

BW? There are two competing behaviours that have to taken into consideration. When I talk to classes I mention that Queens are "vertically challenged" and I use that phrase as it seems to stick in minds rather well. Given the chance, queens will go up and when there they well.... lay. Bees also want to store honey above the brood nest. Now, if you put a large chamber over the brood nest what will happen is a large part will be used for honey and a smaller part for brood. Neigher result is what I am looking for and I was taught this lesson many years ago by the bees when I dipped a toe into double broods which is why I now do what I posted above. I probably could wear my weary fingers to the bone but do try next year yourself and welcome you are to the ensuing mess and weight. Been there and trying to save you the pain. KISS

PH

Makes sense. Nah thanks, I think I’ll give that a miss lol.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Demaree or double brood for me.
I move frames of brood above instead so a bit different to poly.
No less than two capped emerging brood above for double brood colonys.