Need suggestions before final decision!!!

[baggieboing]

When I was queenless last summer, I did notice that the bees were far less active than they had been. It was several weeks before new queen started laying. I wouldn't like to suggest that this is solely down to queenlessness, and nor would I want to argue with anyone that queenlessness was even part of the reason at all: observation of one hive by one new beek is never going to be "hard evidence"!

But as you've nothing to combine your drone-layer with, then dispatching her and adding a frame with eggs might be worth a go particularly if there is anything at all in my observation above - not much to loose after all.

The trouble is i dont have another colony to take a frame of eggs from, and nearest beek is 10 mins away and probably would not want me to go rifling through her hive at this time of year (even if I could transport the brood quick enough not to chill).

 

[sherwood]

Just suposing that if a frame with a few eggs or young brood could be obtained from another beek and the drone layer was despatched, would the bees make a substitute queen to keep the colony going for the time being, weather and temprature permiting of course so as not to chill the brood, I don't have any bees or experience yet so please go easy with me if this wouldn't work

and what would mate with this queen precisely, phantom drones

 

[oliver90owner]

Sherwood,

You have not read post 15?

I missed the drones issue at first.

Regards, RAB

 

[The Hyde Ranger]

and what would mate with this queen precisely, phantom drones

Hello sherwood, are You sugesting that all the drone eggs the current queen is laying won't hatch ? and what hapens to them if they do hatch will they all be unable to mate ? I have read that wet weather can have an effect on sucessfull queen mating, is the current temprature also a problem ? am I missing something here, I did state that I had no experience as a beekeeper, but I had hoped that by asking You knowlageable beeks on the forum questions I would learn from all of Your past beekeeping experiences and reduce the mistakes I might make later on this year when my own bees arrive, Regards Nigel.

 

[Hombre]

Sorry to say Baggieboing but in the situation of your own choosing they are all but a lost cause.

Had you chosen to follow general advice to start with two colonies which are better than one, you would be in a position to do something. The something would be to kill the duff queen and shake the bees out in front of the other colony so that they could bolster their numbers. The queen if not killed by you previously would not be accepted and it's likely that the drones would get short shrift too.

Sad but true.

So you are now looking for two nucs if you have learned something from the experience.

If you were to be able to donate your remaining bees, shaken out, to your neighbouring beekeeper, you could perhaps arrange to receive a frame of brood later in the year in exchange. This arrangement, if acceptable to both parties, would bolster build up numbers of one of her colonies now and the frame of brood would do much the same for one of your new nucs later in the year.

 

[BKF Admin]

Hi Nigel,we seem to have your rain down here in Hants.
I dont mind not having your mud but you can have the rain back..

Regards Drones this time of year:Yes there is a chance you could get a mating if the weather picks up but a couple of problems could be the lack of Drones available in any congregating area this time of year,you would near enough guarantee that any queen would either become a drone layer before the seasons end or would be superceded.
Other problem is Drones take a while to become fertile and ready to mate so the clock would still be ticking on any new queen,mating would not take place until around the end of April,possibly to long to wait for the winter bees in the hive to hang on as they also are going to have to look after the brood for another 3 weeks after the new queen starts laying.
basically the clock is ticking and I think time has run out for this colony.

Hello sherwood, are You sugesting that all the drone eggs the current queen is laying won't hatch ? and what hapens to them if they do hatch will they all be unable to mate ? I have read that wet weather can have an effect on sucessfull queen mating, is the current temprature also a problem ? am I missing something here, I did state that I had no experience as a beekeeper, but I had hoped that by asking You knowlageable beeks on the forum questions I would learn from all of Your past beekeeping experiences and reduce the mistakes I might make later on this year when my own bees arrive, Regards Nigel.

 

[Tom Bick]

(even if I could transport the brood quick enough not to chill).

I did this last year and transported a frame for 1 hour and it worked fine although it was at a warmer time of the year what you need is a warm towel or perhaps better have two wrap the frame in it and off you go.

It is touch and go given the time of year but good look and dont give up completely a lot can happen in two weeks

 

[Poly Hive]

There are a couple of points to ponder here.

Lest you think I am going to offer hope that is not so, they are doomed.

There is a theory that drone laying queens produce undersized drones as the larvae are not in proper drone cells but bodged worker ones.

If that is so then the drones which will be hatching soon are not much use from the off on that basis alone. Plus they need time to mature, another three weeks or so, and your remaining workers will be pretty few and far between.

It is indeed precisely for this reason in spring that two units are recommended, and so that there is a supply of test frames in later months so doubts as to a colony's condition can be removed.

It's a shame but there it is.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

If they were mine i would just kill the queen and shake the bee's out in front of other colonys,then put the brood box to good use on top another colony,but obviously this is not an option in this case. Not sure about the drone situation in that area,but many of my own colonys now have solid combs of sealed drone brood,in drone combs put in for the production of drones as early as possible.

Lot of mucking about,but if the colony was STRONG enough in bee's and you could obtain two frames of emerging brood(which i very much doubt) with some eggs/larvae,one now soon,and one around eleven days later then they could still survive and raise a queen which would be ready to mate towards the later part of april.Kill queen,place first comb of brood in hive,break down any cells after 10/11 days,the young emerging bee's from this first comb will help with younger bee's to produce a queen cell from the second frame of brood you then insert,then pray for good weather and drones.

Very good reasons for having two or more colonys.

 

[BKF Admin]

Its a sound technique Hivemaker,I have read of it a few times where you just keep adding frames of brood and knocking off queen cells every few weeks until the weather/drones are ready..
Never tried it myself though.

 

[baggieboing]

Sorry to say Baggieboing but in the situation of your own choosing they are all but a lost cause.

Had you chosen to follow general advice to start with two colonies which are better than one, you would be in a position to do something. The something would be to kill the duff queen and shake the bees out in front of the other colony so that they could bolster their numbers. The queen if not killed by you previously would not be accepted and it's likely that the drones would get short shrift too.

Sad but true.

So you are now looking for two nucs if you have learned something from the experience.

If you were to be able to donate your remaining bees, shaken out, to your neighbouring beekeeper, you could perhaps arrange to receive a frame of brood later in the year in exchange. This arrangement, if acceptable to both parties, would bolster build up numbers of one of her colonies now and the frame of brood would do much the same for one of your new nucs later in the year.

I have to say I choose not to post on here that often because of self satisfied, sanctimonious mugs like you.
How the hell do you know what advice I was or was not offered, or what my individual circumstances are?
I am really upset about losing my colony and don't need your c**p on top of it.
I have tried to use this forum as a resource to access more experienced Beekeepers as I acknowledge I am still in a beginner in comparison. I have had much good advice both publically and in private messages, but your judgmental holier than thou attitude is pathetic to say the least.
Keep your smug comments to yourself or contact me in person by p.m. and lets see if you are still such a "Keyboard Warrior "!!!

 

[mbc]

I have to say I choose not to post on here that often because of self satisfied, sanctimonious mugs like you.
How the hell do you know what advice I was or was not offered, or what my individual circumstances are?
I am really upset about losing my colony and don't need your c**p on top of it.
I have tried to use this forum as a resource to access more experienced Beekeepers as I acknowledge I am still in a beginner in comparison. I have had much good advice both publically and in private messages, but your judgmental holier than thou attitude is pathetic to say the least.
Keep your smug comments to yourself or contact me in person by p.m. and lets see if you are still such a "Keyboard Warrior "!!!

Sorry to hear about your loss baggieboing but since discovering beekeeping forums on tinternet I allways enjoy the threads with a bit of 'bite'

 

[The Hyde Ranger]

Hello admin , thankyou for answering my questions, however if the queen has been laying drone eggs for a while ther may well be more mature drones than we think, I don't know how common drone laying queens are at this time of year but there are at least two reports on the forum at the moment , does this problem only hapen in managed hives or can feral colonys with old queens become drone layers too ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Nigel
yes it happens in feral colonys as well,they die out and another new swarm will likely take up residence. In managed hives if the queen turns drone layer in winter they also die out,in summer if a queen fails she can easily be replaced one way or another to prevent losing the colony.But which ever way you look at it a drone laying queens colony is over dead.

 

[mbc]

Talking to anyone who does AI one of the hardest things is to get drones fully fertile- they need to be in A1 tip top condition. Bearing this in mind I cant beleive raggend drones from a drone laying queen have got a snowballs chance in hell of succesfully mating a virgin...but I may be wrong!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Neither would I..in this case. But well looked after drones even from a drone laying queen would be ok.

 

[mbc]

For drones to be tip top they need excellent nutrition and the nurse bees in a drone laying colony will rapidly age after the last generation of workers hatches. Although older workers will re-activate the hypopharageal glands to feed brood if necessary they never reach the proportions of a bee of the right physalogical age so the drones will probably be crap.
Thats two big words in one sentance- how did I do on the spelling ?

 

[Blodwen Price]

Thats two big words in one sentance- how did I do on the spelling ?

Spelling? Hmm, best not go there! ;-)

 

[Poly Hive]

1st was ok 2nd was a miss fire. Do you use firefox? Excellent spell checker.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Wee bit out with the spelling lol,but easy enough to read,and yes drone rearing colonys do need very good nutrition.