National to Deep National

[badger65]

I think I will demaree.

 

[Pete D]

I am currently changing 3 National broods to 14 x 12.
I put the 14x12 on top of the std national brood (ie deep) and let them get on with it.
3 weeks later,
1 hive has half drawn it and the queen is still only laying downstairs so will let her and them carry on for a bit longer.
2nd hive has also half drawn the 14 x 12 and the queen is laying upstairs (and downstairs) and she and the 14 x 12 are now on the bottom with a QE then the std national brood on top.
3rd hive has also half drawn the 14x12 but made queen cells downstairs, she was laying in both boxes. I have done an AS with this one with the old queen in the 14x12 in the original position.
Pete D

 

[oliver90owner]

Pete D.

Just wondering why you are changing from 'standard' deep brood boxes to extra-deeps.

Did you consider double brooding on deep boxes? I certainly prefer the extra-deep format of the 14 x 12 over the deep or double deeps, although it is always a compromise. At least double brooding on deeps allows use of DN frames already in use and they can easily be moved from the top deep to the bottom deep if found necessary. Demareeing with deep broods is also far easier than attempting with the extra-deep format (weight wise!).

RAB

 

[milkermel]

Colony i look after for someone goes on to double brood box last year for the first time It is more of a faff, but apparently the extra deep frames can be a problem too. this colony runs well over two broodboxes and i tend to have no more than 5 frames of stores at the most it takes a bit of tidying each inspection (maybe i am doing something wrong please feel free to gently correct) but it gave just about enough space for them and i wonder now if extra deep would have been big enough anyway!

At least this way i have extra kit to play with .

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Is it too late in the season to change over brood boxes from deep to extra deep?

We have been converting hives over from deep to extra deep because we find that we have large colonies. One hive we put the new 14x12 on top of the old brood box and on the other we put it underneath. This later one does not seem to have been drawn, so I was wondering what is the best thing to do, or is it too late in the season now? We have one full super on and have just added another in a short break between torrential downpours!

Idea 1) Swap the brood boxes around so that the deep is below the extra deep and they build upwards

Idea 2) Use a Snelgrove board to do a split and end up with two hives

Idea 3) Leave them alone and hope that they build downwards later in the season as they reach maximum population size

Idea 4) Start again next year with boxes reversed.

 

[oliver90owner]

Idea 1) is a--e about face?

When it is warm enough, they will generally go up into the top box no problem. Has just been too cold for a 14 x12 (the extra-deep) to be on the top, in all probability. I put one on a colony in early April (may even have been late March) when they needed a super (and got 1 1/2 equivalent), and they are now only just maintaining the status quo. They are now in the top box but it is not that heavy. I can shortly remove the two shallows they were occupying over winter.

 

[Baggyone]

Too late in the season? For some of us its still bloody winter!

They will only draw out comb when its warm enough and they have enough input to do so. I would leave the hive as it is and then when you find the queen in the bottom box, put an excluder on it. You could then do a walk away split.

Snelgroves are vertical AS's used primerily to not lose the bees in a single colony. That means more bees to make honey. What you are really after is the demeree but you really want to get both brood boxes full and then split.

baggy

 

[Pete D]

Hi Rab,
as a new starter last year I acquired 1 colony on brood and half which I struggled with and after it swarmed i reduced it to a single brood. I had 6 national single broods over the summer and reduced down to 4 for the winter.
Then along comes an offer of 6 hives, 4 of which are 14 x 12, also 3 nuc's which again were all 14x12. I found these frames easy to get on with and felt they gave plenty of space for the bees and contained them in a single box, thus doing away with my beginners bad experience of multi box brood nests. To be fair I was running long before I could walk and within 4 weeks of me getting the hive it swarmed on me following the warm spring followed by the poor early summer which kept me as a new beekeeper from inspecting.
I am changing 3 of my nationals over so I can run 6 14x12's and 4 Nationals. The 14x12 I see mainly as my honey bees and the nationals will be primarily for nucs and queen rearing, with maybe a bit of honey. I may in the end go all 14x12 but still make nucs and do AS with the nationals.
Following my recent bee farming experience I really liked the Poly Langs and would of considered them seriously knowing what I know now......... ahh hindsight.
I have though done a deal today for a un used Poly National, complete with 3 supers (no frames) for £50 from a local keeper who brought it last year but just dont like it.
So I will have 1 Poly for now. (might get an eke for it though and make it a 14 x 12 !
Cheers
Pete D

 

[Pete D]

So far have done 2 AS this year both on Nationals, the 14x12s are showing no signs yet...........
Obviously loads of factors other than box size could influenece this.
Pete D