Moving new nuc - time required

[Anthony.]

Hi All,

Hoping to pickup our first colony in a few weeks from a member within our association (location A).

However our issue is that they currently have 2 hives and are only circa 2.5 miles away (as the bee flies) from ours (location B)

From what I can read online if I was simply moving 2.5miles I could probably get away with it by leaving an empty nuc at the old site to pickup any strays. However our issue is that the site already has 2 hives and our nuc will be split from one. Therefore any strays cannot be isolated and reunited with the colony.

I’m thinking of playing it safe and moving the nuc to an intermediate location (3.5 miles from current spot and probably 4 miles from ours – location C). A few questions arose:
1. How long would you leave in the intermediate location (C) before moving back to ours?
2. Would you bother buying a nuc when moving the final leg to pickup any strays from the intermediate spot(C)?
3. Anything else worth considering on the move that I might have missed?

 

[mjt68]

Hi All,

Hoping to pickup our first colony in a few weeks from a member within our association (location A).

However our issue is that they currently have 2 hives and are only circa 2.5 miles away (as the bee flies) from ours (location B)

From what I can read online if I was simply moving 2.5miles I could probably get away with it by leaving an empty nuc at the old site to pickup any strays. However our issue is that the site already has 2 hives and our nuc will be split from one. Therefore any strays cannot be isolated and reunited with the colony.

I’m thinking of playing it safe and moving the nuc to an intermediate location (3.5 miles from current spot and probably 4 miles from ours – location C). A few questions arose:
1. How long would you leave in the intermediate location (C) before moving back to ours?
2. Would you bother buying a nuc when moving the final leg to pickup any strays from the intermediate spot(C)?
3. Anything else worth considering on the move that I might have missed?

You don't need to worry or do anything special. The 3 mile thing is a rule of thumb anyway (bees don't have rulers) and any returning bees will just join one of the colonies in that apiary.

I would buy a nuc so that you have one on hand.

 

[sean-a]

Put some obstruction in front of the nuc so that the bees are aware they need to reorient and you will be fine.

 

[Anthony.]

You don't need to worry or do anything special. The 3 mile thing is a rule of thumb anyway (bees don't have rulers) and any returning bees will just join one of the colonies in that apiary.

I would buy a nuc so that you have one on hand.

Put some obstruction in front of the nuc so that the bees are aware they need to reorient and you will be fine.

Sorry - are you both saying don't bother with the intermediate site? and just move direct?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The three mile 'rule' is like rules in general, a guide for the wise and for the obeyance of fools.
It is not a rigid 3 miles, it all depends on local forage (at both locations) topographical features, weather, and a whole lot more.
if there is good forage nearby to both sites then bees may not travel more than a mile, therefore moving them two miles is safe - then again, bees will sometimes fly more than two miles to forage, so then you're looking at a four mile 'rule' or more to be safe.
at 2.5 miles, even if some do drift back to the old location, the numbers would be negligible, and as there is still a hive at the old site, I would just write them off and not bother faffing around with a nuc for them to settle in.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

our issue is that the site already has 2 hives and our nuc will be split from one.

So the nuc hasn't been made up yet, and is coming from a split? if the split happens today it would be unwise to move it either any later than today or, before the new queen has emerged, mated and is established on her own brood.
A fresh split would be low on flying bees and mostly consist of nurse bees so would be fine (Not that I would) to move two miles

 

[Murox]

To answer your question - It can also help to keep them shut in the nucleus for 24 hrs. Place an obstruction in front of the entrance when you do open it as it will force then to re-orient. Grass, foliage, anything; works just fine - any straying bees will just be absorbed into another hive at original site.

 

[Anthony.]

The three mile 'rule' is like rules in general, a guide for the wise and for the obeyance of fools.
It is not a rigid 3 miles, it all depends on local forage (at both locations) topographical features, weather, and a whole lot more.
if there is good forage nearby to both sites then bees may not travel more than a mile, therefore moving them two miles is safe - then again, bees will sometimes fly more than two miles to forage, so then you're looking at a four mile 'rule' or more to be safe.
at 2.5 miles, even if some do drift back to the old location, the numbers would be negligible, and as there is still a hive at the old site, I would just write them off and not bother faffing around with a nuc for them to settle in.

So the nuc hasn't been made up yet, and is coming from a split? if the split happens today it would be unwise to move it either any later than today or, before the new queen has emerged, mated and is established on her own brood.
A fresh split would be low on flying bees and mostly consist of nurse bees so would be fine (Not that I would) to move two miles

Thanks for both your comments JBM. Regarding the timing of the split im not entirely sure how we will play it so I'll happily take the steer from our mentor!

(I'll clearly also take his steer regarding locations - the reason for my question was personal curiosity and trying to think ahead! )

 

[Anthony.]

To answer your question - It can also help to keep them shut in the nucleus for 24 hrs. Place an obstruction in front of the entrance when you do open it as it will force then to re-orient. Grass, foliage, anything; works just fine - any straying bees will just be absorbed into another hive at original site.

Thanks Murox - looks like a significantly easier move just going direct!

 

[Bakerbee]

Go with the direct move. Leave them closed in for 24 hours. Ive used fern fronds in the past to get in the way of the entrance, it immediately causes them to orientate as they realize theyre not in Kansas any more. Good luck.

 

[Poly Hive]

As above.

For information the 3 mile "rule" which until the last few years was pretty strictly adhered to, is based on this:

The foragers are thought to fly some mile to a mile and a bit out, so by moving three miles one avoided them finding the old flight paths and returning to the old site.

We now know it's quite possible to move a full colony hundreds of meteres and with a couple of dodges like the obstruction they will re-orientate and settle neatly.

Welcome to the craft. Every days a learning day.

PH

 

[eltalia]

@Anthony
The 3mile/10km 'rule' is there for a "shure to be shure" outcome in all
circumstances, inclusive of advice source(s) used by the unknowing
in diving into modern technology. One could label such a rule as
The Nostradamus Effect were it taken as gospel.

In moving bees it is the longitudinal/latitudinal change in respect of
the Azimuth that triggers reorientation, not distance so much.
So screen them in and let them be to settle up until an hour before dusk
before letting them out.
She'll be apples next morning as they'll reorientate whilst your Kellogs(r)
is going down the shute.

Bill

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https://www.photopills.com/articles/understanding-azimuth-and-elevation