Moving my hive causing confusion.

[beenovice]

Hi all, I have been moving my hive about 3 feet every day for the last 5 days. I move it in the morning before work before the bees are up. Today is the first time I have been able to sit and watch. There seems to be quite a bit of confusion as some bees are still flying around the original position. Having said that, lots of bees are entering the hive. Total distance to move is about 40 feet. Should I keep going with the 3 feet per day, or close them up and move in one go? Obviously these lovely spring mornings are a critical time for them and I don't want to disturb them too much.

 

[oliver90owner]

Each day? No thought that perhaps it is too cold for many of the bees to be flying?

 

[Dishmop]

Move them a foot at a time 2 or three times a day... Dont seem to get as confused then..

 

[itma]

Much depends on the direction of travel, relative to the entrance.

"3 feet" is just a simplified rule of thumb.

You can move it further if directly away from the entrance (moving the hive "backwards") - and less, I'd say much less, if 'forwards' (when returning bees would arrive to find a hive that had moved 3 feet was actually behind them - and that was the back of the hive, not the entrance, at that).
I think a sideways move of one hive width (half the 3 feet) is plenty.

The new hive position should always be in "bee sight" from the old entrance position. So straight moves (backwards) across an open space can be quick, but going round (never over) to the other side of a wooden fence, needs to be taken slowly and in tiny steps.

You'd be better leaving them at least a couple of days between moves.

I think a 30º twist is enough for one move.
And it helps if you combine the twist with a 'backward' move.

Bees are pretty short sighted.
Always think - can the bees see and recognise the new entrance position quickly, when they arrive flying a landing pattern for where the entrance used to be?
This morning, I've just 'decorated' a new hive's entrance with the disc that 'signposted' the entrance to that colony's former home (a polynuc), since the nuc had been shifted recently, and the weather has turned cooler.

Be more cautious in cooler weather, as you are 'hiding' the warm home they are expecting to dive straight into.

 

[rosco]

Last weekend was the first time it was really warm enough to inspect my colonies this year. The bees were flying well and in good fettle.

Anyway, I switched one of my colonies from a full brood box to a poly nuc. I should have done this before winter really but didn't have the equipment so just insulated them as best I could. This swap caused a lot of confusion at the entrance even though it was only a few inches from the previous one. In the end they settled down though and I'm glad I waited until a warm day for the swap.

Anyway, the remarkable thing was that I had temporarily placed the old solid floor (not the hive body or roof) about 10-12 metres away, on the far side of the garage and not in direct view of the colony itself. After a few minutes there was a worker, fully laden with pollen, wandering around on the floor looking confused. I gave the floor a shake and off she went, presumably into the nuc box. To me this demonstrated just how much scent/pheromones contribute to a bee finding its own colony. I would imagine that on a nice warm summer's day you could get away with moving a hive further than 3 feet. Not that I'd be brave enough to try though.

 

[Dishmop]

Is the new hive a different colour?

 

[rosco]

Yes. Green painted poly nuc vs celotex covered national box (silver).

Edited to add, by the end of that day most were pretty well oriented and flying straight in the new hive.

 

[itma]

... I switched one of my colonies from a full brood box to a poly nuc. ... This swap caused a lot of confusion at the entrance even though it was only a few inches from the previous one. In the end they settled down though and I'm glad I waited until a warm day for the swap.

Oddly enough, a couple of days ago, I did the opposite, hiving a nuc. And I thought that the day was a bit cold for them to be spending so much time wallying about wondering whether that really was the entrance to their colony or not.
So I pinned the nuc entrance disc over the hive entrance.
Reassured by the familiarity, they stopped hanging around, and went in much more quickly.

Anyway, the remarkable thing was that I had temporarily placed the old solid floor (not the hive body or roof) about 10-12 metres away, on the far side of the garage and not in direct view of the colony itself. After a few minutes there was a worker, fully laden with pollen, wandering around on the floor looking confused. I gave the floor a shake and off she went, presumably into the nuc box. To me this demonstrated just how much scent/pheromones contribute to a bee finding its own colony. I would imagine that on a nice warm summer's day you could get away with moving a hive further than 3 feet. Not that I'd be brave enough to try though.

I don't think your single-bee observation really supports that conclusion.
The experimenters have concluded that smells are important in recognising their own colony/hive, but not to their navigation/location processing.
And your observation of the bee that accidentally discovered its home in the wrong place and was interested, fits with this known science. Vision is what is important to finding the hive/colony - as was demonstrated with the confusion created by both of us changing the appearance of our hive entrances.

 

[Dishmop]

If you have a white box on a brown stand they head for the bottom of the white box.... if you place a brown box under the white box they will still head for the bottom of the white box.

if your boxes are white, stand in front of the hive wearing a white sut and all the bees will land on your legs...

 

[Davelin]

Oddly enough, a couple of days ago, I did the opposite, hiving a nuc. And I thought that the day was a bit cold for them to be spending so much time wallying about wondering whether that really was the entrance to their colony or not.
So I pinned the nuc entrance disc over the hive entrance.
Reassured by the familiarity, they stopped hanging around, and went in much more quickly

.

It's often the simplest ideas that are the best. Never had any problems hiving a nuc but this seems a very good way of making it even less stressful.

 

[Davelin]

Re OP. I would go more slowly. I moved a hive 3ft at a time; the bees were flying direct to the old entrance position and the re aligning in mid air for 3-4 days after the move. I would wait until they were flying straight in before next step. If you go 3ft a day then after 4 days it's 12ft and that's a long way away if they are still flying in to old position. 40ft is a fair distance in step moves so could take some time.

 

[drstitson]

3 ft every couple of days; assuming they are flying between times. they need to reorientate to new precise location. otherwise 3ft per day for 3 days is no different to 9ft in a go.

 

[rosco]

I don't think your single-bee observation really supports that conclusion.
The experimenters have concluded that smells are important in recognising their own colony/hive, but not to their navigation/location processing.
And your observation of the bee that accidentally discovered its home in the wrong place and was interested, fits with this known science. Vision is what is important to finding the hive/colony - as was demonstrated with the confusion created by both of us changing the appearance of our hive entrances.

Thanks for the informative post, itma. Just shows that one should never make rash assumptions.

I hope the wee anecdote of my observation is interesting nonetheless.

 

[YorkshireBees]

I agree that vision is the most important sense in locating the hive.

For a number of reasons this year I have added visual 'signposts' to my hives.

Real simple to do and I don't know why I didn't do it before!

 

[Summerslease]

It is possible to move a hive more than three feet and less than three miles in one go by confusing the bees and causing them to re-orientate. I saw a youtube video of the technique last year and have used it twice.

Last week I moved a hive half a mile successfully. Once the bees had returned to the hive in the evening I sealed it and moved it to its new location. Then I restricted the entrance block so that only one bee could get through. About a foot in front of the entrance I stuck a pea cane with some holly branches tied on (any branch or piece of vegetation should do though). The next day the bees were so confused at the view from the front of the hive that they re-orientated on it, forming a 'cloud' of bees at the front of the hive. Within a couple of hours some were bringing in pollen. Just to be sure I went back to the old location and checked- no returning bees (and none since).

I can see no reason why it shouldn't work for a move of 40 feet as well as the half mile I tried.

 

[Bosleeu]

You are right, if you make sure the view upon exit is radically changed it works for almost any distance.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[itma]

The length of time shut-in, entrance obstruction and changing (compass) entrance-direction all help to *reduce* (but not eliminate) the number of bees 'homing' to the wrong site after a short direct move ... and thus (if you still have hives close to the old site) reduce those begging their way into a different hive or else being utterly lost, and quietly perishing.

Even the time of year (and weather) makes a difference ... In a prolonged mid-winter cold spell, you probably won't need ANY 'tricks' to get away with a move of any such distance.