Mouldy the Cold Way?

[margob99]

At the end of the winter, on my first inspection I found the two outermost frames had mould on the outer side. This particular hive is the first time I am using the frames the Cold Way - I have always used Warm Way, and never had mould before (although I've only been beekeeping for 4 years so can't profess to have much experience).

I replaced both frames with fresh frames with undrawn foundation and destroyed the two that I removed.

Subsequently I have had to move the bee hive to a new location somewhere else; I noticed on the last inspection mould made an appearance again - this time just on the outermost frame, outer side ie next to the wall of the hive (National brood box, Cold Way) - on the side of the hive that was most exposed to the elements.

I am just guessing that Cold vs Warm way might have something to do with the appearance of mould, and I am curious to know if anyone else has had a similar experience.

You might say that the difference is negligible, but I have done a bit of reading, and one comment on Dave Cushman's website did make me wonder if the Cold Way might contribute to problems like mould:

"With the frames set "Cold Way" a winter cluster will tend to progress across a set of 11 frames starting from the centre and moving to one side. This causes a problem when they get to the side wall. The cluster is then as far as it can be from the remaining stores. This can result in "isolation starvation" as they will not be able to leave the cluster, due to cold, to travel the few inches to obtain the rest of the stores.

This problem can be avoided by having the bees the "Warm Way". As they generally place their stores at the back of the hive and work their way from the front to the back as winter progresses."

You might argue and say therefore in a Warm Way hive, the backmost frame is likely more susceptible to mould as well, but I wonder if frames across the front opening give more of a buffer against the cold/exposure, whereas Cold Way allows more cold in, and the bee cluster moves around in a different way, and the outer frames running parallel to side walls of the brood box are in a way colder ... I hope I am explaining my thoughts clearly.

Just wondering what other people have experienced, and what they think.

 

[For want of a better word]

never had mould before


Used both "ways" never had a problem with either.
Bad ventilation or a inept colony?

 

[Finman]

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I have had much mold in my hives 40 y ago, and professionals told to me that keep cluster in tight room.
i am not afraid of some mould.

cold way- warm way is humbug. It does not help if you believe that.

Outermost combs are easy to get mold, especially if they have pollen in cells.
You avoid that when you put foundations before winter feeding in that site. - or at least white new combs.

Molding happens when room is much more bigger than cluster. Then respiration condensation happens onto cold comb surface.

If you keep tight room for wintering, it keeps room warmer and dryer.

Too tight ventilation keeps the hive damp and it makes mold.

Over ventiation consumes too much winterfood.

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have OMF floors the orientation of the hives will not affect things one way or another. it's just a figure of speech now to describe which way the frames run. one way is neither colder or warmwer than the other.
I wouldn't have changed the frames either unless they were in a heck of a mess - I had a bit of mould on some of the frames this year, but the bees have now sorted that out

 

[Arfermo]

If you have OMF floors the orientation of the hives will not affect things one way or another. it's just a figure of speech now to describe which way the frames run. one way is neither colder or warmwer than the other.
I wouldn't have changed the frames either unless they were in a heck of a mess - I had a bit of mould on some of the frames this year, but the bees have now sorted that out

OMF left open provides enough ventilation to avoid mould imho. I leave the floors open and do not insulate either - never a problem.

 

[user 6228]

OMF left open provides enough ventilation to avoid mould imho. I leave the floors open and do not insulate either - never a problem.

I dont think the prescence of mould on comb has been proved detrimental in of itself.

 

[Finman]

OMF left open provides enough ventilation to avoid mould imho. I leave the floors open and do not insulate either - never a problem.

sad to read this kind of wisdom

.

 

[SWFC]

Just out of curiosity which way do bees build without any interference from frames etc in wild?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Never had a problem with combs going mouldy in the deep freeze either, summer or winter, so cold definately works.

 

[Finman]

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oh dear....

I looked the forecast on London. Day temps do not rise this week over 15C.
From my point of view it seems very cold way.

We have here just now 20-23C. Everyone have here insulated hives.
Hive insulation is very usefull even in summer.

Ventilation.
- why you ventilate one box hive in cold weather as much as 5 box hive in summer heat?


A little bit thinking what your are doing there in south.

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[Hivemaker.]

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A little bit thinking what your are doing there in south.
.

I use solid floors, all year round.

 

[user 6228]

I use solid floors, all year round.

insulated solid floors year round...
for ventilation we use bee wings, and themal circulation. To use bee wings and themal circulation year round, we keep bees warm and fed.

 

[BeeJayBee]

At the end of the winter, on my first inspection I found the two outermost frames had mould on the outer side. ...

Subsequently I have had to move the bee hive to a new location somewhere else; I noticed on the last inspection mould made an appearance again - this time just on the outermost frame, outer side ie next to the wall of the hive [..] - on the side of the hive that was most exposed to the elements.

It could be that the weather is getting into the box.

Have you checked that the roof is fully weatherproof, that the box's joints aren't letting in water?

 

[enrico]

Just out of curiosity which way do bees build without any interference from frames etc in wild?

Any way and every way, often not in a straight line at all!

 

[Skyhook]

Just out of curiosity which way do bees build without any interference from frames etc in wild?

Any way and every way, often not in a straight line at all!

Interesting to note in the videos on skep beekeeping I so often refer to (watch them if you haven't) that to retain the combs in the skep the would push spiles (thin sticks) throgh the hive from side to side, in the knowledge that the bees would build at right angles to this- ie cold way with regards to the entrance hole.

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[gerrysw]

You probably will think this daft but dowsers - water deviners, people who believe in the existence of lay lines think that the bees orientate their comb in line with lay lines of force. Had a talk by TBH "natural" BK recently who had problem with bees forming comb at 90 degrees to the top bar..... Turned the hive by 90 degrees and problem solved!

 

[margob99]

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Molding happens when room is much more bigger than cluster. Then respiration condensation happens onto cold comb surface.

If you keep tight room for wintering, it keeps room warmer and dryer.

Too tight ventilation keeps the hive damp and it makes mold.

Over ventiation consumes too much winterfood.

.

Thanks, everyone, for the comments. Finman's comments ring a bell for me; I think perhaps I did not get the balance right between size of colony and size box over-winter - I can see the signs from what he says.