Modified Dadants

[Lance Hutchings]

Newbeek question
Out of interest is there a particular reason that more people dont use Modified Dadants ?
I would of thought with the larger capacity brood chamber that this would help against swarming and the need for brood and a half or maybe double brood ? Is it because they are heavy to move or are the frames difficult to get the honey out of ?
Sorry for the noob questions

Lance

 

[Chris Luck]

I can't answer your question Lance but bees in Dadants definitely swarm easily even when put on brood and a half, just a larger swarm.

Chris

 

[susbees]

The frames are indeed heavy and cumbersome (we had a nuc of them when we started...more bees for the same money but that was the only good thing). 14x12 and commerials will give you compatibility (more or less) with the majority of other beekeepers in the country so makes sense for the day you need to borrow a test frame.

 

[wightbees]

I use them but all my frames are shallows.
This way I always have boxes spare for supers or brood.
Makes splits easy also. Suits me but I started this way.

 

[DorsetB]

I use them, just changed over, breath of fresh air compared to messing about with brood and a half on National frames.

My bees were just getting really bad tempered before I changed them over, and I was seriously thinking of requeening. Decided to put them in the larger hives first, and within days were cute as kittens, and the speed at which they drew the new wax was phenomenal.

Drawbacks as far as I can see are:

1) need to monitor queen failure/drop off in pheromone levels much more closely, as a lot more pheromone will be required to fill a bigger box.

2) I do clip & mark, but if they do swarm, the swarm will be a lot bigger than with my previous hives.

3)Yes, supers & b/bs are heavier but that's because they hold more, not because of their inherent weight.

As it happens I will have to requeen anyway, as the larger frame and therefore laying pattern has enabled me to spot the fact that having bred my own queens last year, I have noticed my gene pool must be too small, as I have slightly patchy brood - not a health issue but an inbreeding one which is now a lot easier to spot.

 

[Lance Hutchings]

Thanks for your replies everyone
Much apreciated !!

 

[Midland Beek]

I can't answer your question Lance but bees in Dadants definitely swarm easily even when put on brood and a half, just a larger swarm.

Don't know how you worked that out. Note that proper Dadant used on the continent is a different size of frame to the Modified Dadant used in the UK - the MD frame being larger. And the MD box in the UK takes 11 frames in the brood box and 10 in the super.

The reason why MD isn't used more in the UK is because of the failings on new beekeepers. Few investigate aspects of the hive before getting bees, and this is why so mant later change to a larger pattern of hive.

Beekeeping in the UK is backwards.

 

[Chris Luck]

What is it exactly that you don't know how I worked out?

BTW Our Dadants in France have either 10 or 12 frames in the BB and frankly 12 is just too large to handle, although realistically a 10 frame needs two people to move it when full.

Supers have either 8 or 9 frames as a rule and are also just a tad too heavy when full to take of for one person that's getting older.

Chris

 

[Crg]

The frames are indeed heavy and cumbersome (we had a nuc of them when we started...more bees for the same money but that was the only good thing). 14x12 and commerials will give you compatibility (more or less) with the majority of other beekeepers in the country so makes sense for the day you need to borrow a test frame.

You're going put brood frames from the majority of beekeepers in the country in your hives?

 

[Crg]

I can't answer your question Lance but bees in Dadants definitely swarm easily even when put on brood and a half, just a larger swarm.

If you have swarmy bees, they'll swarm in anything.

If you put good bees in a MD they are unlikely to swarm.

 

[Crg]

Beekeeping in the UK is backwards.

Couldn't agree more.

For example you get people on one hand saying you shouldn't share equipment because of the risk of spreading disease, then in the next breath they'll say you need to get the same less-than-ideal hive type as "everyone else" so that you can share equipment.

 

[Chris Luck]

With all due respect there's no such thing as "Swarmy bees".

Bees swarm naturally, it's what they do unless you mess about with them.

Still no response from Midland Beek just so I know what you are trying to say and then I can reply to it.

Chris

 

[Onge]

I ran Dadants for a couple of years.

There great BUT.

There very heavy if you need 2 to move a brood box. I did move them on my own but they did me in.

If you run the pre-wired foundation they do bow very easily about 40% of them bowed, I would recommend wiring them yourself or they will bow.

So if there's 2 of you and your willing to wire your frames they are very good.

 

[Chris Luck]

I've near enough stopped using foundation on my brood frames now. I still wire them but then insert a small starter strip in the groove at the top. Providing the hive is vertical they fill in the frame and wires.

Chris

 

[Black Comb]

You can also consider Jumbo langstroth which take MD frames in the brood box and use standard LS supers.

They hold 10 MD deep frames. I usually run them with 9, 10 if a very strong colony. L/s Supers hold more than national but not as much as Dadant so are not as heavy.

You are advised to put extra wires in the brood frames as well as using wired foundation.

Top bee space as Dadants.

 

[Midland Beek]

Not sure about the spacing in your hives because MD and Jumbo are not the same. They are spaced differently, ie. have different width side bars.

 

[Black Comb]

Thanks. didn't know that.
Thornes always supply brood frames labelled MD deep when ordering l/s jumbo.

 

[susbees]

Couldn't agree more.

For example you get people on one hand saying you shouldn't share equipment because of the risk of spreading disease, then in the next breath they'll say you need to get the same less-than-ideal hive type as "everyone else" so that you can share equipment.

Um, no. The test frame scenario is OFTEN discussed on this forum and can't recall you suggesting it's unacceptable. And when buying and selling nucs it helps a lot if the nuc frames are compatible with where they are going next.

And why do you feel a 14x12 or commercial is unsuitable? Gets rid of the two box brood (and from traditional two box queen rearing but that's OT). And MDs are too heavy for many people...including those of us with good backs that want to keep them that way.

 

[Black Comb]

It's quite easy to put a national frame into a L/s or Dadant.
All you need are 2 cable ties or some garden wire.

 

[Crg]

With all due respect there's no such thing as "Swarmy bees".

Bees swarm naturally, it's what they do unless you mess about with them.

With all due respect you need to do some more research.

Some bees are more inclined to swarm than others. The ones that are more inclined to swarm are considered "swarmy".