Merging colonies advice

[nuporter]

Hi, please can I have some advice.
I have got one colony who only just about made it through the winter, with a laying queen (marked green), and has about 2 seems of bees in a 12x14 hive (H2).
A different colony, who were strong after the winter, swarmed last sat, I retrieved the prime swarm and housed these in a new hive (H4) .With the bees and hive (H1) that was left, I have reduced the capped queen cells to 1.
My question is..... I'd like to merge the very small colony (H2) with one of the other hives (as I'd like to obtain their brood box to use as spare in case of future queen cells). I thought about merging them with the queen less colony (H1) and destroying the capped queen cell, as this would give them a laying queen - but I'm worried that this queen may be defective which caused the colony to nearly collapse over the winter.
Would I be better to kill the queen and merge the remaining bees with either H1 or H4?
I hope this makes sense.
Thanks
Nuala x
Ps all colonies are now on 12 x14 brood boxes

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If it is just a colony that's merely struggling to pick up, being sat in a massive 14x12 hive isn't going to help them in the least, don't you have a nuc you can put them into? thus freeing up a brood box and at least giving the wee colony a fighting chance.

two seams of bees at this time of year seems extremely weak - I wouldn't sacrifice anything to save that queen.
With a colony that weak I'd probably just shake them out as well rather than faff around with uniting.

 

[Nige.Coll]

You have to ask why are they so small ?

The biggest risk is the potential spread of disease from a failing colony to one that is healthy.

Find out why they are in that situation before shaking them out or combining them with another.
Stick them in a nuc and move them away from your healthy bees if you can until you know whats wrong with them.
It could be the queen is failing but more than likely some nasty like nosema ceranea. Until you know you cannot safely do much with them.
Make sure you sterilise any equipment used by that colony before re use.

 

[nuporter]

Hi- many thanks. I think they prob have got dysentery, but I haven't got a nuc to put them in that would fit the 14x 12 frames. How do I 'eliminate' them? I have got a national nuc that I could transfer them into.
I agree about sterilising all equipment before re-use.
Thanks again
Nuala x

 

[jonnybeegood]

Hi- many thanks. I think they prob have got dysentery, but I haven't got a nuc to put them in that would fit the 14x 12 frames. How do I 'eliminate' them? I have got a national nuc that I could transfer them into.
I agree about sterilising all equipment before re-use.
Thanks again
Nuala x

Paynes sell a nuc with a converter to make 14x12 frames fit, i use them, if you order now you could get it tomorrow? Just an idea?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you can get that nuc as JBG suggests then you can spray them with thymolised syrup (usual mix in 1:1) and try to give them a chance.

 

[wessexmario]

you could temporarily convert the 14x12 into a nuc by removing a few frames each side and replacing with dividers and insulation.

 

[Dan Job]

You could use a spare QC from the swarmed colony to re-queen also..

... Sorry just read you first post again you have already taken them down to one. Maybe next time.

 

[Cussword]

Paynes sell a nuc with a converter to make 14x12 frames fit, i use them, if you order now you could get it tomorrow? Just an idea?

Maisemores do the same; http://http://bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1401

 

[Cussword]

Click Here!! Sorry about that

 

[REDWOOD]

Does the small colony have stores?

 

[Thymallus]

Maisemores do the same; http://http://bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1401

Same manufacturer, either Paynes or Maisemores embossed on the roofs. Identical....well one comes with black entrance disc and the other with white....

 

[Honeybeeco]

Could it be simply they were small coming out of winter and there are simply not enought bees to keep the new brood warm ( its still cool out there ) so they keep the queen laying slow and the new brood is just enought to cover the amount of dying bees? It might be getting bigger but slowly?

A mate of mine had exactly that recently and no matter what he did they just stayed at 2 frames of bees, his bees were heathy and he was lucky to get 10 flyers out the front of the nuc. When I found out, i brought another frame of brood and 2 frames worth of bees and in 2 weeks the things off like a rocket and now it's growing at an exponential rate.

Just another beeks reply

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Same manufacturer, either Paynes or Maisemores embossed on the roofs. Identical....well one comes with black entrance disc and the other with white....

Maisemore's now sell a different design with a top feeder instead of that side reservoir., nice bit of kit actually.No top beespace but doesn't seem to be an issue (got half a dozen on the go at the moment)
http://bees-online.co.uk/view.asp?ID=1408

 

[Thymallus]

Good to know. Thanks for the update.
Less "footprint". without the side feeder, although I quite like them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They also do a deal for bulk orders

 

[Thymallus]

They all do...sometime you have to ask them though. Nicely helps.

 

[nuporter]

Hi all, thanks for your help. I have transferred the very small colony into a national nuc (luckily the frame the bees were on was the old national size) and put in 4 frames of stores. I sprayed them with stuff (think it was called nosevit), and will leave them for a few weeks.
I will get a 12 x 14 nuc box, as you have recommended on here - I'm sure I will need one at some point.
I needed the 12 x 14 box yesterday as another of my hives had a charged queen cell, so I artificial swarmed it. I've gone from 3 colonies to 5 within 5 days! (I only really want 3 - so may merge back at end of summer.). I thought that by changing from National brood boxes to 12 x 14 brood boxes, I'd get less hives wanting to swarm! I was wrong.
Thanks again for the advice
Nuala x