Merging beehives

[omnimirage]

I had a weak hive in a nucleus with about 250 bees in it, with what appears to be no queen. I then had an even weaker hive with about 100 bees in it, that did have a queen.

I heard of a trick when merging beehives, to stack the two hives on top of each other, and seperate the two colonies by paper. Then, cut a few slits into the paper. The idea goes is that the pheromones from the two colonies seap through the slits, and the bees become accustomed to each other. The bees then eat the paper, and by the time they do so and reach each other, their pheromones have mixed and they don't attack each other and instead, work together.

So I opened my 250 hive nucleus, and put paper inbetween the super and lid. I then took the 100 bee colony and all of it's waxcomb, which is about the size of my palm, and placed it on top of the paper, inside the lid. Days later, nothing much has happened. The bees don't appear to be eating the paper at all, and I feel that I made a mistake by using two layers of paper, when the hive is so incredibly weak. I'm not sure what I should do. Should I leave them as is? Should I open it up, make much bigger slits, to the size that bees can crawl through? Advice much appreciated.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

with two colonies that small I''d be thinking both are doomed

 

[dexter's shed]

with so few bees, you should have done it this way, quicker and works fine

https://youtu.be/O4sS_Gc529E

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I had a weak hive in a nucleus with about 250 bees in it, with what appears to be no queen. I then had an even weaker hive with about 100 bees in it, that did have a queen.

I heard of a trick when merging beehives, to stack the two hives on top of each other, and seperate the two colonies by paper. Then, cut a few slits into the paper. The idea goes is that the pheromones from the two colonies seap through the slits, and the bees become accustomed to each other. The bees then eat the paper, and by the time they do so and reach each other, their pheromones have mixed and they don't attack each other and instead, work together.

So I opened my 250 hive nucleus, and put paper inbetween the super and lid. I then took the 100 bee colony and all of it's waxcomb, which is about the size of my palm, and placed it on top of the paper, inside the lid. Days later, nothing much has happened. The bees don't appear to be eating the paper at all, and I feel that I made a mistake by using two layers of paper, when the hive is so incredibly weak. I'm not sure what I should do. Should I leave them as is? Should I open it up, make much bigger slits, to the size that bees can crawl through? Advice much appreciated.

You really do need to get hold of a decent book or two on beekeeping, join up with some local Beekeepers and get some introductory training. You're half a world away from most of the beekeepers in this forum which makes it difficult to give you the help you so clearly need.
Bearing in mind the difference in season. The bees you have are almost certainly doomed because of the low numbers being below critical mass. However for future reference uniting over newspaper is almost foolproof using one thickness of paper and several small cuts with your hive tool.
G'day sport

 

[Madge]

Yes, they're probably doomed - but try and save them by just plonking them all together. They might be grateful for the extra help. Maybe spray them with some sugary water with vanilla or something smelly in it to confuse smells. Reduce the space considerably so that it is just a very small nucleus. Add insulation above the crown board (to help them regulate the temperature - even if it's warm outside), and feed them and hope for the best.

 

[enrico]

Merge them with the swarm you didn't collect properly!!!!!!!!

E

 

[snelgrove]

You really do need to get hold of a decent book or two on beekeeping, join up with some local Beekeepers and get some introductory training. You're half a world away from most of the beekeepers in this forum which makes it difficult to give you the help you so clearly need.
Bearing in mind the difference in season. The bees you have are almost certainly doomed because of the low numbers being below critical mass. However for future reference uniting over newspaper is almost foolproof using one thickness of paper and several small cuts with your hive tool.
G'day sport

 

[pargyle]

Judging by this thread and your other one about collecting swarms I think you need a bit more help than you can get from this forum ... By my reckoning it should be early spring in Australia .. are these 'weak colonies' over wintered nucs or are they from somewhere else ?

I can't think how you could get to a stage where you only have 100/250 bees .. at that size they are not really a colony ... indeed, 250 bees in a Nucleus would be rattling around the space they have available.

What is your beekeeping experience to date ? What sort of hive(s) do you have ? Where in Oz are you ? - it's a pretty big place with a variety of climates.

There are lots of beekeepers in Australia - there must be one somewhere near you that can help and advise. I suspect (as JBM above) that the two 'weak' colonies are past the state where you could get them going ... if the queen is laying and you can get them into a small hive (a nucleus with just a couple of frames and some insulation in the rest of the hive would be a good start) and then feed them 1:1 sugar syrup - you might stand a chance but I'm not hopeful.

At this stage I'd tip them all into the same hive and let them get on with it.

 

[Finman]

.
one kilo bees is 10 000 bees. It occupyes a half Langstroth box. It is minimum colony to over winter.

250 is 1/40 out of minimum. Must be a joke. One occupyed frame has 2000 bees.

 

[Madge]

.
one kilo bees is 10 000 bees. It occupyes a half Langstroth box. It is minimum colony to over winter.

250 is 1/40 out of minimum. Must be a joke. One occupyed frame has 2000 bees.

Omnimirage is in Australia, so it's spring time. This is not over-wintering.

 

[oliver90owner]

Another +1 to those sensible replies - the ones that are telling you it is a waste of time. Ignore the rest.

If only that few bees, one might wonder why the original colonies dwindled so much . Disease possibly? And some are advising to add these bees to possibly healthy colonies? No thank you. They are just not worth the time, trouble and risk. Get rid.

 

[Madge]

Another +1 to those sensible replies - the ones that are telling you it is a waste of time. Ignore the rest.

If only that few bees, one might wonder why the original colonies dwindled so much . Disease possibly? And some are advising to add these bees to possibly healthy colonies? No thank you. They are just not worth the time, trouble and risk. Get rid.

I think everybody has said they're probably doomed - but he can still try, particularly as it's spring, not autumn. Trying to save them is not a waste of time (if they are healthy). It may also help Omnimirage to understand bees' needs better.

 

[omnimirage]

I appreciate all the good replies!

I checked the bees yesterday, and figured it'd be best to provide photos, instead of descriptions:

http[colon slash slash]imgur[dot]com/a/lcttT

(I haven't got enough posts to be able to use links or images. Please replace the "[colon slash slash]" with "://", and the [dot] with ".".)

The merge was successful. There was a rip in the paper, and they must have tunneled down into such.

The other two frames of the four frame nucleus had no activity. This was midday, there probably was some flying out. I must have underestimated how many bees their was, but note, this is the two hives combined.

are these 'weak colonies' over wintered nucs or are they from somewhere else ?

What is your beekeeping experience to date ? What sort of hive(s) do you have ? Where in Oz are you ? - it's a pretty big place with a variety of climates.

These are swarms that I have collected, that haven't transitioned well. One of them I posted about previously.

They seemed to have managed well enough after that, as they've been building comb, storing honey and generally active. Seems like something happened to the queen, though.

The smaller hive was from another job. The client told me that before I arrived, there were many more bees, and these were the remains. I put them into the nucleus, and left it there, hoping that they'd return, which they never did.

A few years ago, I volunteered with a beekeeper for two months. For a year now, I've been managed a couple of hives, googling at every point along the way, learning as I go along. I have five established, Langstroth bee hives, alongside five captured swarms(probably seven tonight! ); I'm also maintaining six other strong hives from someone who no longer has the time to do so. I live in South Australia, not in the tropical/desert parts.

 

[pargyle]

If you are collecting swarms then you should make sure that you have the queen in the box - you sound as though you have some beekeeping experience but not with swarm collection ?

Briefly, if you find a swarm try and shake as many bees as you can into the box you are collecting them in, then leave it alongside where the swarm had clustered, preferably a bit off the ground. If the queen is in the box then the rest of the bees will follow her in there. You then need to leave the swarm box in position until it gets dark when all the bees will come back to the queen and will be inside the box. You can then seal it up and take them to where you are going to hive them.

If you don't get the queen then you are really wasting your time collecting swarms. if you don't leave the swarm box in position until it gets dark then you won't get all the bees and some will be left behind which will become a nuisance as they will, probably, be queenless.

I hope you are a bit more knowledgeable about general beekeeping/swarm control than you are about swarm collection as, with the number of hives you have under your 'control', you will be in for an interesting season over there... good luck.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I heard of a trick when merging beehives, to stack the two hives on top of each other, and seperate the two colonies by paper. Then, cut a few slits into the paper. The idea goes is that the pheromones from the two colonies seap through the slits, and the bees become accustomed to each other. The bees then eat the paper, and by the time they do so and reach each other, their pheromones have mixed and they don't attack each other and instead, work together.

..... Days later, nothing much has happened.The bees don't appear to be eating the paper at all, and I feel that I made a mistake by using two layers of paper....

The bees don't eat the paper, they chew it and throw it out of the entrance.

One sheet of newspaper is enough, and it's best to make sure the upper colony has enough stores to last them a few days.

I checked the bees yesterday, and figured it'd be best to provide photos, instead of descriptions:

http[colon slash slash]imgur[dot]com/a/lcttT

(I haven't got enough posts to be able to use links or images. Please replace the "[colon slash slash]" with "://", and the [dot] with ".".)

Here's your link http://imgur.com/a/lcttT

The others are right about collecting swarms, more especially as you're referring to 'clients' which suggests they are paying you. The reason for leaving final collection until dusk is simply because during the day bees from a swarm will be scouting for a new home, so you will almost certainly be leaving your clients with a cluster of homeless and leaderless bees if you take the box too early.

The smaller hive was from another job.

A hive is a box that may or may not contain bees.
A colony of bees may live in a hive provided by a beekeeper.

 

[pargyle]

Here's your link http://imgur.com/a/lcttT

That's a pathetically small amount of bees ... I rather think they are not going to be up to the growth they will need to develop into a viable colony. As I said earlier - only chance you have is to nurse them in a very small space and feed them ... Is it worth it ? RAB is probably right ...

 

[omnimirage]

Thanks for the advice on capturing swarms, though I already know all that/do it, not sure what I said that gave the impression that I'm that clueless with capturing swarms.

I'm doing a free service off a website called "gumtree".

I had no clue that the word "hive" could refer to an empty box.

I collected a few more swarms tonight, and one of them was rather well established. I took off a big section of comb that had a lot of brood on it, alongside a bit of pollen and honey. I put this inside the weak hive, alongside maybe 200 worker bees. I did it at night, and used smoke to help get them not to fight, which seemed successful. It'll be interesting to check it out in the morning.