Maximun number of hives in a given area ?

[coffin dodger]

Hi All,

I live in the sticks, open country on one side and a river on the other, the land surrounding is mainly arable, OSR, wheat etc with a few fields being left for hay, the riverbank is covered in weeds, dandelion, clover, borrage thistles and the like, as a guestimate, how many hives would such an area support ?

http://goo.gl/maps/kAgwX will give an idea of the local area, your thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
CD

 

[Poly Hive]

Manley wrote about this in the 30's.

In essence the advice stands.

You put on what you think it can support. Say 10. If you get a good return you increase to say 20. In a similar season you assess. If the yield drops you reduce if it stays the same you continue to increase until there is a drop.

Common sense really.

PH

 

[psafloyd]

Quite a few private gardens as well, I'd have said.

As PH says – you put out what it can support. Or you'll experience the law of diminishing returns.

 

[Chris Luck]

You put on what you think it can support. Say 10. If you get a good return you increase to say 20. In a similar season you assess. If the yield drops you reduce if it stays the same you continue to increase until there is a drop.

Only argument with that is that no two seasons are the same which makes any objective assessment near on impossible. Even one isolated hive in a three kilometre radius with good forage will produce wildly fluctuating quantities with differing weather situations in a season.

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

Of course. That is the devil of it.


PH

 

[victor meldrew]

Plus wannabies trying beekeeping then developing severe reactions (Common excuse for not really taking to it)and giving up bound to skew the figures
VM

 

[Chris Luck]

And the answer is...

Nobody knows, therefore this could be another Gravy train opportunity for some more pointless tax payer study funding.

Chris

 

[Finman]

.
You can put even 50 hives in one point, but question is, but how much pastures offer to hives. Then you may have allready over grazed pastures on site.

I have places where one hive is enough. It harvest all nectar what is on area.

I can put there 4 hives, but I do not get more honey than from one.

A fact example:
I moved to my summer cottage 1981.
1988 I had 15 splended Italian hives. Then I got a swarm 7 km away my cottage. I leaved it on that area. It occupyed one langstrith box.

from that one box swarm I got more honey than from my best 5-box hive in my hone yard.

It forced me to think that area has too much bees. 1 km away my neighbour had too 15 hives and they harvested same pastures.
Since that year I have carried all hives away from cottage yard.

My neighbour says that he gets a good yield from his home yard. Of course, because I take my hives off from the site.

On outer yards I can see that 3 fold yield is very normal between sites. Even 5 fold differencies are possible. It is very diffucult to know what is a good pasture. It may be good now but next year it may be a bad mistake.

.

 

[farbee]

And the answer is...

Nobody knows, therefore this could be another Gravy train opportunity for some more pointless tax payer study funding.

Chris

Having been on that 'gravy train' as you put it I think you are condemning alot of people who do good and useful work.
Without research there is no progress and the pay given anyway on that gravy train is rubbish and the contractural position appauling.

Do you know any of this or just do you like having a pop about thing you clearly know nothing about? I am so glad I left that wonderful gravy train.

What is more your post add nothing to the question asked.

 

[coffin dodger]

And the answer is...

Nobody knows, therefore this could be another Gravy train opportunity for some more pointless tax payer study funding.

Chris

Now thats a good idea, I wonder if the goverment would fund me to see how many hives I can juggle

Seriously though, my plans are to buy 'flat pack' hives during the off season, build them over the winter then stock with bees when the local BKA have their auction next year, that should give me an earlier start than this year.

I just wondered if there was a saturation point and how many I should go for,
I thank everyone for their comments, I'll start slowly and see where that takes me and try building up slowly.

Regards
CD

 

[Finman]

I just wondered if there was a saturation point and how many I should go for,


I'll start slowly and see where that takes me and try building up slowly.

There is no saturation point when you migrate hives.

The number of hives is not the main point.

If you have 30 hives, you nees quite big building where you store all honey making stuff.

Then if you get honey, you need more customers. That is not easy

 

[Chris Luck]

Do you know any of this or just do you like having a pop about thing you clearly know nothing about? I am so glad I left that wonderful gravy train.

What is more your post add nothing to the question asked.

Oh dear, tut, tut, tut. another corn trodden on.

How much is there to add?

Nobody knows or can know because as I pointed out there are too many variables from year to year, including the genetic make up of the colonies, (Oooop's another possibility there for some research with tax payers money).

Of course I could pad it out with yards of verbiage, (I'd probably get a grant for that), but there would be no point other than to try and sound smart, and frankly there are enough people trying to make keeping bees into something far more esoteric than it is.

Chris

 

[masterBK]

You do need to consider how many other hives and apiaries are in your immediate area? This year I discovered one containing 15 hives just a field away from one of my apiaries and it turns out that it had been there for many years but well hidden inside a clearing in a wood.

 

[Chris Luck]

You do need to consider how many other hives and apiaries are in your immediate area? This year I discovered one containing 15 hives just a field away from one of my apiaries and it turns out that it had been there for many years but well hidden inside a clearing in a wood.

Yup, good point, most of my hives aren't visible without entering private land, and around these parts many other keepers hives are only visible in winter when all the leaves have fallen.

Chris

 

[rook66]

Another factor is swarming. I attended a workshop a few years ago given by Michael Wieler (Biodynamic lecturer) and he contends that when a bee visits a flower she leaves a footprint (pheremone) indicating to future visitors the colony numbers in the area. If the area is overstocked they solve this by swarming.

 

[Chris Luck]

I would have thought that would compound the "problem" by increasing the number of colonies rather than rectifying it, no? Or are we to assume that swarms would move at least 6km?

Chris

 

[Pete D]

Agree with others its about what is available, and its not how many hives its how many bees.
I had 6 hives at my home apiary and got a small amount of honey from them at the end of May despite me using 4 of them to draw new 14x12 broods as I wanted to change them over from std national and the other 2 I split making 6.
So at the end of May I had 10 boxes of bees on this site. Plenty of forage available and building up. I then helped a friend out who needed a temporary home for 6 hives for a couple of weeks at the end of May the site totalled 16.
The 4 which moved to 14x12 I then did AS on increasing my box of bees count to 20 during June. Again forage available and building up.
By early July I had added 4 nuc's for introducing my Ged marshall queens and 4 more splits in Nucs from one of my out apiaries where the queens are both productive and well mannered. My friends hives are still there but now only 3 as he united them after queenlessness. So by now 31 boxes on 1 site.
I did some unites and sold a couple of Nuc's and scaled down to 18 of mine and 3 lodgers. Bees holding there own now with poor weather and forage diminishing. Late July.
This week after another 2 colonies sold and some unites at 2 out apiaries and a subsequent shuffle about I have 12 (+ 3 lodgers) boxes at home, 4 big colonies and 8 nuc's / broods building up. Again just enough forage and weather for them to be holding their own right now.
So this apiary was all about bees, nuc's and splits for me which is what I wanted from it, its handy and I can work on the bees everyday if I need to.
My 3 other sites are all about the crop, between 2 to 6 hives, all big and strong and 200lb May harvest and hopefully same again very soon. I have been able to assess which of these sites this year could of supported more and moved them accordingly, also helps me form my plan for next year.
My home apiary is rural, no OSR this year but plenty of trees, hedges, blackberry, beans and the usual bee friendly 'weeds', I also planted about 1/3 of acre of borage which flowered all July.

More bees and not more hives = more honey
Moving bees between sites to maximise whats available = more honey
Moving bees between colonies to maximise the foraging force (unites) = more honey
Oh and good swarm control and weather = more honey

I started this year with a dozen hives / nuc's and will end with a similar number, although I may have a couple more nuc's as spare queen back ups.

Just my 2nd year beekeeper views.

Cheers
Pete D