Managing Poly Hives

[Hivemaker.]

Rooftops i agree, but would of thought that 30 years would of been enough time,especially considering the huge amounts money also lost in that time through not changing.

 

[mbc]

I thought that the aussie, kiwi and yank commercial beeks have largely bit the bullet and invested huge amounts of money in going over to plastic frames/foundation despite evidence to suggest they initially lower honey crops - I think the largest factor in going over to the plastic frames was reduction in labour costs( but I might be wrong! ) How then if poly box's are so much quicker to assemble and are less maintenance and improve bee health and produce larger honey crops ( according to some ! ) have these fairly affluent ( in terms of investment potential ) beekeepers not jumped on board ?
"Be all and end all of this matter" is still to come out in the wash - I intend to keep an open mind and try a few of these magic hives and see how they fare with my bees

 

[RoofTops]

The price of wooden hives varies between countries. At a recent beekeeping exhibition in Slovenia the poly hive companies were struggling as local hives were cheaper in wood. However, the largest factors determing choice are pretty much the same all over the world - beekeepers are a conservative lot and the economics of beefarming are so tenuous the move over to a different material could be seen by many as too much of a risk. Fear of the unknown applies in many walks of life.

 

[mbc]

The price of wooden hives varies between countries. At a recent beekeeping exhibition in Slovenia the poly hive companies were struggling as local hives were cheaper in wood. However, the largest factors determing choice are pretty much the same all over the world - beekeepers are a conservative lot and the economics of beefarming are so tenuous the move over to a different material could be seen by many as too much of a risk. Fear of the unknown applies in many walks of life.

Precisely why I pointed out they had overcome any materials/cost objection to plastic frames/foundation - if it saves effort or money or works better over time the beeks across the pond tend to take it up pretty swiftly. It only takes one to show it works and the others follow , this hasnt happened despite the number of years poly hives have been available

 

[Finman]

.
The most valuable thing in polyhives is that it is light. Langstroth box is 1000 g. 2 box are 2 kg.

I remember how difficult was to lift 2-box wooden hive and transport it to outer pastures.


Insulated wooden hives are really heavy. Poly hives are easy to repair.

3-frame poly nucs are superior. They are easy to make when you split a coomercial box in 3 pieces. A new queen can fill all frames with brood because it is warm. You may pile 2 nucs and then you have 6 rame. When you take a laying queen away, just join 2 nucs.

 

[oliver90owner]

But would the hives, if built that way not be top heavy and prone to tipping when loaded with suppers?

Simple physics at work here. Any stack will remain in stable equilibrium as long as the centre of mass is inside the base. With a hive, it would either be extremely tall or there would have to be open gaps between the components for that to happen. The poly hive has thicker walls (40mm vs 20mm in wood) so perhaps a beek could try really hard and test it to the limits! But not a sensible one!

As long as stood level the upper boxes should be no more likely to move than on a wooden hive - remember if poly-supers were used, there will be a locating lip at the bottom of each box (Paradise Farms). This will ensure water shedding, if fitted onto either a poly or wooden box below.

If a wood box is on top it will have exactly the same outside dimensions as the poly box (460 x 460mm) below.

A loaded super, poly or wood is going to be in the same 'ball park' for weight, just that the poly-super will always be lighter in all 'like for like' cases. The more likely scenario is an empty poly super blowing off in a gale - but that is why a hive strap is supplied as part of the package, so that would be down to the operator.

So, I envisage no stability problems, as far as I can see.

Regards, RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Never seen one tip over yet.

I was pondering the North American & Australian market and the only thing I can think of is that dampness is not an issue for them.

Our biggest foe in the winter is damp and both those climates are dry even in Winter.

Plus of course the issue of cost. Timber is so cheap over there.


PH

 

[GingerNut]

Build Your Own Poly Hives

Hi All,

I have successfully built seven poly hives this year, my own design, based on a National.

They are made from this

http://tinyurl.com/37qfue6

and including a stainless steel mesh floor cost less than £30 each for a 14x12 brood box and roof.

The bees love them and don't eat their way out.

Yours Roy

 

[Finman]

But would the hives, if built that way not be top heavy and prone to tipping when loaded with suppers?

Simple physics at work here. Any stack will remain in stable equilibrium as long as the centre of mass is inside the base. With a hive, it would either be extremely tall or there would have to be open gaps between the components for that to happen. The poly hive has thicker walls (40mm vs 20mm in wood) so perhaps a beek could try really hard and test it to the limits! But not a sensible one!

As long as stood level the upper boxes should be no more likely to move than on a wooden hive - remember if poly-supers were used, there will be a locating lip at the bottom of each box (Paradise Farms). This will ensure water shedding, if fitted onto either a poly or wooden box below.

If a wood box is on top it will have exactly the same outside dimensions as the poly box (460 x 460mm) below.

A loaded super, poly or wood is going to be in the same 'ball park' for weight, just that the poly-super will always be lighter in all 'like for like' cases. The more likely scenario is an empty poly super blowing off in a gale - but that is why a hive strap is supplied as part of the package, so that would be down to the operator.

So, I envisage no stability problems, as far as I can see.

Regards, RAB

i have mixed wooden an polyboxes without rules. I cannot see any proplems. I have set up frame to link different size boxes...

.

 

[FenBee]

Your hives look great GingerNut.

Did you use butt joints, when constructing the poly hive?

I have used a similar sheet that is 75mm thick for roof insulation on my Rose hives. The board I am using for insulation is not as dense as the polystyrene used on my poly Langstroths, but then again it might not be the same make of polystyrene sheet.

 

[Hombre]

Nice job GingerNut. I did notice that the Knauf board seems denser than the regular white expanded polystyrene.

 

[oliver90owner]

About 40 kg per cubic metre?

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

.
Says nothing that cubic metre. Poly box weights1000 = , or what do you have?

Paradise box has thicker wall, because only hand places are thin. Nacka box has 50 % thin areas.

My experiece is that self made polyhives are wasting time and money. What is usefull to make in UK is frame parts. they need not to be so perfect. Just sticks together. They cost more than polybox. The bottom and covers are too easy to make from recycled material.

You need 100 pound table saw from Lidl and you get what you want.

 

[Finman]

.
Split with table saw poly box and you get splended nucs. Dont make to them mesh floor.

 

[GingerNut]

Your hives look great GingerNut.

Did you use butt joints, when constructing the poly hive?

I have used a similar sheet that is 75mm thick for roof insulation on my Rose hives. The board I am using for insulation is not as dense as the polystyrene used on my poly Langstroths, but then again it might not be the same make of polystyrene sheet.

They are just glued together, I had to use a special glue............first one I made fell apart

Plans attached.

Note: The hole cut in the floor is the front of the hive.

Yours Roy

 

[GingerNut]

Nice job GingerNut. I did notice that the Knauf board seems denser than the regular white expanded polystyrene.

Yeh, that's why I used it.

The little darling do chew it, but it's 52.5mm thick.......takes them a little while to get through, but I found a way to stop them chewing it....................just paint the inside with PVA

Yours Roy

 

[oliver90owner]

GingerNut,

Without the extra strength of the higher density material (yes, I know it is quite robust as I have used it for making lace pillows and converting my Langstroth jumbo nucs to 14 x 12, amongst other things) How would you think it would be for a 14 x 12 (lifting and moving)?

Stood still, it probably has few issues and I am particularly interested re the PVA as I was considering coating one side of each sheet with a cheap bee-proof veneer. It is just moving them for migratory beekeeping Iam concerned about.

Regards, RAB

 

[GingerNut]

GingerNut,

Without the extra strength of the higher density material (yes, I know it is quite robust as I have used it for making lace pillows and converting my Langstroth jumbo nucs to 14 x 12, amongst other things) How would you think it would be for a 14 x 12 (lifting and moving)?

Stood still, it probably has few issues and I am particularly interested re the PVA as I was considering coating one side of each sheet with a cheap bee-proof veneer. It is just moving them for migratory beekeeping Iam concerned about.

Regards, RAB

Hi Rab,

I don't move mine, but I have glued the floor to the sides (for stability) so it will only be the weight of the 14x12 brood that will cause any problem, but that should be lighter than a wood 14x12.

The PVA works well. I first used it to protect the frame runners as they are just cut out of the poly. This was so successful in protecting the surface that all future poly hivs will have all surfaces (except outside) painted with PVA (I use waterproof).

Outside surfaces are painted with Cupranol Shades, takes overnight to dry, but as you can see it stays on there.

Yours Roy

 

[Tom Bick]

Well done GingerNut looks like you have found something that works for you the concept is very interesting.

As I see it from your drawings the sides sit on the bottom and the front panel is 10mm short for an entrance for the bees if this is the case why then are the sides cut at 375mm or am I missing something

 

[johna]

I recon Knauf space board could make up into the Rose OSB hive.,Less frames of course but sized to fit on to a standard Nat floor,crown board roof etc.Just an idle thought.