maisemore poly

[Swarm]

It's just personal choice, however using it as a lever in the fashion described WILL damage both poly and cedar. It is possible to lever against the top bar of the next frame, near the sidebars but even this can cause damage to the frame.
Next time you use the J tool, use it horizontally and not vertically. Fit the J end between top bars, rotate a little and it's free. This is possibly even easier than the standard tool, especially if you are suffering with wrist pain as I am.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

They don't supply them with their wooden hives either, the bevelled edge on the poly is the same design as their wooden hives. Don't use your hive tool and lever against the hive edges, you prise the frames apart.
I use swienty and top bee space so no runners at all and no damage.

That whole set up is "designed" to generate prop. I spend hours with a router taking the bevels off wooden Maisie boxes to add metal runners. Couldn't do it on poly.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

But it's not what the j tool was designed for - it's meant to make it easier to separate the frames before lifting

I'm confused: it certainly seems like it is supposed to be put under a frame, with the notch on the neighbour and pulled back in its own plane, pulling the lug up to be grabbed. Is this wrong?

 

[Madge]

... using it as a lever in the fashion described WILL damage both poly and cedar. ...

For the nth time: I have never damaged a hive or a frame levering a frame straight up. It's usually the first frame, and often a dummy. There's absolutely no 'WILL' about it.

I'm confused: it certainly seems like it is supposed to be put under a frame, with the notch on the neighbour and pulled back in its own plane, pulling the lug up to be grabbed. Is this wrong?

No. Not wrong.

Kitta

 

[Swarm]

For the nth time: I have never damaged a hive or a frame levering a frame straight up. It's usually the first frame, and often a dummy. There's absolutely no 'WILL' about it.



No. Not wrong.

Kitta

OK so you can put that notch onto the sidewall edge and lever upwards against frames without it digging into both poly and cedar? The metal tool is harder than the other two so even a fraction of resistance will result in a dent. Sorry, WILL result

 

[Millet]

Is it not common practice to slide the frames apart using a standard hive tool against to lugs of two frames once separated to save rolling the bees, the frame can be slid that bit further by hand so it can be lifted out by hand easily, so basically i do not see the point in them J tools.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For the nth time: I have never damaged a hive or a frame levering a frame straight up.

Well, you either spend ages taking the frame out or you're just a paragon of lucky beekeeping. I've seen them broken doing this, I've seen and heard of people breaking them doing this, I've broken them myself doing this (years ago before I learnt better, or when removing dummy boards which are, just being knocked up from bits of dunnage, IMHO a disposable item)

Is this wrong?

Let's just say unwise shall we?

 

[Madge]

OK so you can put that notch onto the sidewall edge and lever upwards ...

No. You don't put the notch against the side wall - you use the next frame as a fulcrum. No damage.

Well, you either spend ages taking the frame out or you're just a paragon of lucky beekeeping. ...

Not the first, perhaps the second. I'm careful.
Kitta

 

[Brigsy]

This is so confusing. I find the j tool much easier to lift my commercial frames. I don't ever touch the box just the frames. I separate using the flat end horizontally and then lift the loose frame with the j. No friction.

 

[Swarm]

No. You don't put the notch against the side wall - you use the next frame as a fulcrum. No damage.

Kitta

Same applies ( I did mention using the next top bar ) narrow metal edge much tougher than wood.

 

[Millet]

Is it not common practice to slide the frames apart using a standard hive tool against to lugs of two frames once separated to save rolling the bees, the frame can be slid that bit further by hand so it can be lifted out by hand easily, so basically i do not see the point in them J tools.

The, No edit option.

 

[BeeJayBee]

This is so confusing. I find the j tool much easier to lift my commercial frames. I don't ever touch the box just the frames. I separate using the flat end horizontally and then lift the loose frame with the j. No friction.

That's the right way to use a j tool - push the frames apart by twisting the flat end between them and then, if necessary or easier, lift the end of the loosened frame with the j until you can hold it with your fingers.

If you try to pull a heavily propolised frame out using just the j, without first loosening the frame, the frame lug can snap off where it's thinner - where the side bars attach. It happens mostly to new beekeepers who haven't been taught properly, and can be a nightmare to try to fix without either any spare equipment or an extra pair of hands.

 

[Brigsy]

Makes sense no?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

That's the right way to use a j tool - push the frames apart by twisting the flat end between them and then, if necessary or easier, lift the end of the loosened frame with the j until you can hold it with your fingers.

If you try to pull a heavily propolised frame out using just the j, without first loosening the frame, the frame lug can snap off where it's thinner - where the side bars attach. It happens mostly to new beekeepers who haven't been taught properly, and can be a nightmare to try to fix without either any spare equipment or an extra pair of hands.

Thank you. Obviously if you do none of that but lever 10 or 11 proped frames on a poly box you're just going to dig a hole. Or even one. but getting out that first frame or dummy board is a fiddle and I find the J-tool useful.

 

[mintmoth]

Are Maisie polys the same size footprint as wooden hives, or are they bigger but hold the same number of frames as wooden?
In other words, will wooden supers fit on a Maisie poly?

 

[Stiffy]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, can't find it written anywhere that that is the case, but regardless, it's a surefire way of a beekeeper being able to apply a lot more force to a frame than is wise and causing breakages (seen it happen) therefore it should not be used in that way it may be fine if you have all day to insect a hive and can be particularly careful but if you are under the kind of time constraints that Murray builds into inspections then damage is going to occur.

I have been guilty of using a 'J' tool in this way and buggered a few frames in the process. Now use it to separate before lifting.
S

 

[Stiffy]

Are Maisie polys the same size footprint as wooden hives, or are they bigger but hold the same number of frames as wooden?
In other words, will wooden supers fit on a Maisie poly?

Popped a wooden brood on top of a Maisie's last week when combining 2 colonies, fitted okay.
S

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are Maisie polys the same size footprint as wooden hives,

No, bigger to hold eleven frames

 

[mintmoth]

Popped a wooden brood on top of a Maisie's last week when combining 2 colonies, fitted okay.
S

Thanks. So does the BB hold one less frame than wooden (10 rather than 11)?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's the right way to use a j tool - push the frames apart by twisting the flat end between them .

The 'j' itself can be used the same way the curved piece can fit between two frames with the tool almost flat against the top bars a rotating movenet then separates the frames