Maisemore poly nuc winter question

[North End Bees]

Stick two pieces of of 50mm foam together to make the entrance tunnel 100mm long.

Sounds like a plan. Don't know why Maisemore don't market it themselves

 

[mbc]

Well, I don't know about those particular studies. I've not lost a nuc over winter and always leave the mesh floor open.

I like to leave the mesh open until late winter - mid Feb- when I block the mesh with a bit of correx cut to size, it seems to me that they get to that turning point where the young uns come through quicker than the oldies die off just that bit earlier with the added warmth of less draught across the bottom of the nuc.

 

[user 6228]

I like to leave the mesh open until late winter - mid Feb- when I block the mesh with a bit of correx cut to size, it seems to me that they get to that turning point where the young uns come through quicker than the oldies die off just that bit earlier with the added warmth of less draught across the bottom of the nuc.

its not "draught across the bottom". Its warm air "bubbling out". Imagine a bell jar under water and you are filling it with air. The "imaginary water" in the bell jar is the cold air in the Nuc. The "imaginary air" in the belljar is the buoyant warm air in the Nuc. Eventually the air fills the jar and bubbles out the bottom . How fast it bubbles out is determined by the hydraulic resistance of the openings. The resistance of the open bottom of a bell jar or a mesh floor is approximatelly zero. Thus warm air "bubbles out" of the Nuc with mesh and limits the maximum air buoyancy in the Nuc and limits the heat retention. However, a tunnel entrance is a LOT more resistive and so can retain more bouyancy and heat.

 

[Swarm]

I like to leave the mesh open until late winter - mid Feb- when I block the mesh with a bit of correx cut to size, it seems to me that they get to that turning point where the young uns come through quicker than the oldies die off just that bit earlier with the added warmth of less draught across the bottom of the nuc.

I've fitted permanent correx pieces in any nucs I have that are standard design, with inbuilt mesh, they were practically propolised anyway. Most of my nucs are just the bodies on home made floors, some have mesh, some are solid with under floor insulation. My mating nucs are all solid and insulated, I think it helps with small clusters. Can't say I've noticed much difference with the normal nucs, whether mesh or solid floor. All my floors are home made and the mesh area has got smaller and smaller over the years.
I should add, throughout all my 'new design' of this or that, there was one constant. The bees don't care one way or the other.
I'm getting Winter blues and it's not even Winter yet, busy making accommodations for next year's queens.

 

[mbc]

its not "draught across the bottom". Its warm air "bubbling out". Imagine a bell jar under water and you are filling it with air. The "imaginary water" in the bell jar is the cold air in the Nuc. The "imaginary air" in the belljar is the buoyant warm air in the Nuc. Eventually the air fills the jar and bubbles out the bottom . How fast it bubbles out is determined by the hydraulic resistance of the openings. The resistance of the open bottom of a bell jar or a mesh floor is approximatelly zero. Thus warm air "bubbles out" of the Nuc with mesh and limits the maximum air buoyancy in the Nuc and limits the heat retention. However, a tunnel entrance is a LOT more resistive and so can retain more bouyancy and heat.

Draught across the bottom helps warm air bubbling out, think venturi vacuum

 

[user 6228]

Draught across the bottom helps warm air bubbling out, think venturi vacuum

yes it does (amended post) but my point is this "carburettor" leaks even with the "engine off"

 

[mbc]

yes it does (amended post) but my point is this "carburettor" leaks even with the "engine off"

Ok.
Practically, the most important thing to remember is that if you block the mesh floor with anything you must open it up before closing them up to move bees in them (unless you're using a ventilated lid), otherwise those polynucs can suffocate bees in a very short space of time.

 

[Beekeeperscottish]

I modified my brood box to give a bee space above the frames by glueing a strip of pvc around the outer rim, still leaving a locating lip.

Very good idea

 

[user 6228]

Ok.
Practically, the most important thing to remember is that if you block the mesh floor with anything you must open it up before closing them up to move bees in them (unless you're using a ventilated lid), otherwise those polynucs can suffocate bees in a very short space of time.

Very Very true I would go with ventilated floor and lid and water spray when moving them any distance with a poly anything and especially if there is a lot of bees... Had some unfortunate experience with that.

 

[North End Bees]

yes it does (amended post) but my point is this "carburettor" leaks even with the "engine off"

The bees need the leakage of air.
Normal respiration would increase levels of C02 and water vapour rapidly within the nuc if the warm air couldn't escape. Your 100mm long 2cm wide tunnel wouldn't provide adequate ventilation.

Imagine being cooped up with your extended family for several months in a single room with just a small side window that leads to a long tunnel before it opens out into fresh air. You'd be needing some ventilation.

Moisture-laden stagnant air is far more harmful to bees than cold.

 

[bigadg]

I just turn the feeder upside down

 

[North End Bees]

I just turn the feeder upside down

Leaving a void above the frames?

 

[Boston Bees]

I just turn the feeder upside down

On a Maisemore poly nuc? How do you then get the lid to go on the feeder, given that the interlocking rim system needs everything to be the same way up?

 

[user 6228]

The bees need the leakage of air.
Normal respiration would increase levels of C02 and water vapour rapidly within the nuc if the warm air couldn't escape. Your 100mm long 2cm wide tunnel wouldn't provide adequate ventilation.

Imagine being cooped up with your extended family for several months in a single room with just a small side window that leads to a long tunnel before it opens out into fresh air. You'd be needing some ventilation.

Moisture-laden stagnant air is far more harmful to bees than cold.

Trees think knot holes. Swarms actively seek out small entrances less than 15 cm^2 . On the contrary, Honeybees survive quite well upto 25% CO2 and like /need 80% RH at 34C - Theres a raft of references for this

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The bees need the leakage of air.
Normal respiration would increase levels of C02 and water vapour rapidly within the nuc if the warm air couldn't escape. Your 100mm long 2cm wide tunnel wouldn't provide adequate ventilation.

Imagine being cooped up with your extended family for several months in a single room with just a small side window that leads to a long tunnel before it opens out into fresh air. You'd be needing some ventilation.

Moisture-laden stagnant air is far more harmful to bees than cold.

Oh goodness - looks like the rubbish published by Wedmore in the 40's has floated to the surface again

 

[mbc]

Oh goodness - looks like the rubbish published by Wedmore in the 40's has floated to the surface again

Well I tend to agree with Little_bees, damp air is worse than cold in situations you're likely to encounter in Britain, hence I like to leave the mesh open on nucs through the winter and only feel there's an advantage in cosying them up when I want to encourage them to brood up, when they re establish a nest properly damp is less of an issue because the colony are obliged to move air about actively to control the environment around the nest anyway.
Edit: this is all imho of course, and in no way advocates top ventilation.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well I tend to agree with Little_bees, damp air is worse than cold in situations you're likely to encounter in Britain, hence I like to leave the mesh open on nucs through the winter and only feel there's an advantage in cosying them up when I want to encourage them to brood up, when they re establish a nest properly damp is less of an issue because the colony are obliged to move air about actively to control the environment around the nest anyway.
Edit: this is all imho of course, and in no way advocates top ventilation.

I always leave my OMF's open all winter - but all that guff about CO2 buildup etc. it's straight out of Wedmore. Struggled through his little book a while ago then realised halfway through that if his theories (and statements ref venting in winter) were true I've got a lot of boxes full of long dead bees that someone sneaks a load of honey on to each summer!

 

[North End Bees]

I always leave my OMF's open all winter

So why do you do that?
Oh yes, because you don't want to suffocate your bees.
Neither am I advocating top ventilation. The Wedmore comment is irrelevant.

 

[Courty]

Thanks for the comments, some of the feeding wells have been painted with gloss paint to make them easier to clean the mould.
I’m leaving the off floor open, I think the insulation of the nucs is excellent, I just wondered if the void above the feeder would need filling. If it is airtight then I would expect it may not be necessary. I’ve put insulation over the Perspex bit to lessen the chance of condensation.
I have some wire mesh that is big enough to act as a mouse guard that should fit under the variable entrance circle, I think a mouse could squeeze through if I just reduced the entrance as the disc might move.

Courty

 

[North End Bees]

I think a mouse could squeeze through if I just reduced the entrance as the disc might move.

A drawing pin will hold it in place no problem.