Low in stores

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Very helpful advice. Do you just leave the super underneath for as long as it’s takes them to move it up and then remove it?

Also, if you’ve just got say 3 or 4 super frames left with dribs and drabs, what’s the most efficient way to ensure that they get utilised by the bees? I’m starting autumn/winter planning and as a beginner have a thousand things going around in my head. Thanks.

To be honest, I don't remove them until early spring so that if I do disturb them they don't get chilled milling around wondering what's happening, it does no harm as it means the cluster is higher up from the floor so less draughts. also, when feeding, there is room for the colony to move down to allow more space for the stores, even if it's just until they ripen it. If there's just 3 or 4 frames, the super still gets nadired.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I must admit I get mouldy frames in nadired supers
So I’m going to try to do without this year
There looks like thee will be a lot if uncapped frames this season so if the honey in them is not ripe I’ll spin it off in the hand spinner and give it back to the bees.
Looks like my nice new shiny 20 frame bargain will remain in its wrapping this summer.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I must admit I get mouldy frames in nadired supers

To be honest, I get very few.

 

[bingevader]

We nadir the supers after extraction rather than storing wet, but tend to take them off again before the winter, so no mould.

 

[shudderdun]

Feeding back honey

I must admit I get mouldy frames in nadired supers
So I’m going to try to do without this year
There looks like thee will be a lot if uncapped frames this season so if the honey in them is not ripe I’ll spin it off in the hand spinner and give it back to the bees.
Looks like my nice new shiny 20 frame bargain will remain in its wrapping this summer.

Hi Dani,

What do you find to be the best way to feed spun off honey back to the bees ?
I have in mind the in hive frame type feeder and the above crownboard rapid type feeder, but wondered if you would have to slightly dilute the honey with water in the latter ?

I do appreciate this would give the bees more work to do in evaporating the water back out, it may even be bad practice my reason for asking.

Thanks.

 

[Niv]

Hi Dani,

What do you find to be the best way to feed spun off honey back to the bees ?
I have in mind the in hive frame type feeder and the above crownboard rapid type feeder, but wondered if you would have to slightly dilute the honey with water in the latter ? I do appreciate this would give the bees more work to do in evaporating the water back out, it may even be bad practice my reason for asking.

Thanks.

I had a friend do this last year. He diluted it with a bit of water and used a rapid feeder - so it was basically like exchanging sugar for unripe honey (although I don't think he needed to dilute it too much)

 

[enrico]

I don't really see why you need to dilute it at all. I feed cappings back in a rapid feeder and they clean that out perfectly!
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Dani,

What do you find to be the best way to feed spun off honey back to the bees ?
I have in mind the in hive frame type feeder and the above crownboard rapid type feeder, but wondered if you would have to slightly dilute the honey with water in the latter ?

I do appreciate this would give the bees more work to do in evaporating the water back out, it may even be bad practice my reason for asking.

Thanks.

Hi Gary
It gets fed back in a 2L round rapid feeder undiluted. That’s all I use as I get to the bees every day and I once had a near disaster lifting off a full Miller feeder.
The bees get invert as well.

 

[Niv]

I don't really see why you need to dilute it at all. I feed cappings back in a rapid feeder and they clean that out perfectly!
E

I guess for the dregs at the end? But I agree, when its not ripe its pretty runny anyway.

 

[enrico]

I guess for the dregs at the end? But I agree, when its not ripe its pretty runny anyway.

Yep, I leave the cup out for the cappings!

 

[Amari]

Bees want to store the honey above the brood nest if it's ripe leave it there 9Half and half sealed means it is ripe, they will cap it when they have spare time to do so), if you go and put it below, you've undone all the poor buggers' work and they will have to start again shifting stores instead of concentrating their efforts in shutting down for winter and producing winter bees. Also the time of year you are doing all this unneccessary shifting around is also the time of year when colonies are more susceptible to wasp attack and general robbing - the reason bees store above and behind the brood nest is that it's further away from the entrance so easier to guard and less liable to be robbed. Nadiring a super full of stores in the autumn is like emptying all your savings accounts and keeping the money in a carrier bag in the front porch.
If, at the end of the season you have near empty supers with dribs and drabs of unripe honey you nadir it so that the bees clean it out and move it above the brood.

Once again, as before, I must stress that the above dogma is an opinion. I preach a different gospel.
I feed invert syrup into a super in September and nadir it when capped in October. Come the spring this 'shallow' is usually empty and ready to use as a super for the OSR.
The disadvantage of having the invert above the BB is that come spring there is usually quite a lot remaining - so what d'you do with that? You don't want your spring honey contaminated with invert. If you nadir this super the six-month-old stores will take time to be moved up. -just at a time when every super is needed, especially in this OSR part of the country.
The argument that you're 'undoing the poor buggers' work' is purely theoretical and anthropomorphic.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The disadvantage of having the invert above the BB is that come spring there is usually quite a lot remaining

there may be with you but I'm not daft enough to leave a super packed with stores on for winter, or below for that matter. Any remaining in the brood frames get taken off and used for feeding nucs.
Nadiring a full super of capped stores!, well.........................
The only dogma I see is the blind obsession of a whole shallow full of stores.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Once again, as before, I must stress that the above dogma is an opinion. I preach a different gospel.
I feed invert syrup into a super in September and nadir it when capped in October. Come the spring this 'shallow' is usually empty and ready to use as a super for the OSR.
The disadvantage of having the invert above the BB is that come spring there is usually quite a lot remaining - so what d'you do with that? You don't want your spring honey contaminated with invert.
.

So if you put their invert underneath it’s all gone? Or is it in the brood box? Or do the bees eat more if it’s underneath?
Its not a problem I’ve ever considered as I run 14x12s and the bees have all their food around the brood for winter

 

[Amari]

So if you put their invert underneath it’s all gone? Or is it in the brood box? Or do the bees eat more if it’s underneath?
Its not a problem I’ve ever considered as I run 14x12s and the bees have all their food around the brood for winter

The invert is taken up into the BB as food for the winter. I don't know whether it's taken up gradually as needed or all at once in October/November - Ive never checked.

 

[Amari]

there may be with you but I'm not daft enough to leave a super packed with stores on for winter, or below for that matter. Any remaining in the brood frames get taken off and used for feeding nucs.
Nadiring a full super of capped stores!, well.........................
The only dogma I see is the blind obsession of a whole shallow full of stores.

Ah, but have ever tried it or are you arguing only from a theoretical stance?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The invert is taken up into the BB as food for the winter. I don't know whether it's taken up gradually as needed or all at once in October/November - Ive never checked.

So just blindly following some obscure dogma

 

[Erichalfbee]

The invert is taken up into the BB as food for the winter. I don't know whether it's taken up gradually as needed or all at once in October/November - Ive never checked.

I’m simply curious. It doesn’t matter how it’s moved.
If you have syrup left behind in a super on top but not on the bottom then it must either be in the brood or eaten. Now do you have to take congested brood frames out in the spring?

 

[maddydog]

Bee keepering the hard way, no wonder Finnie pulls his hair out

 

[Amari]

I’m simply curious. It doesn’t matter how it’s moved.
If you have syrup left behind in a super on top but not on the bottom then it must either be in the brood or eaten. Now do you have to take congested brood frames out in the spring?

I cannot really generalise - it varies. I am not into brood nest re-sculpturing manoeuvres as per Wally Shaw so my weekly spring exams are confined to a quick check for Q cells. My standard autumn feed is 13 kg of invert per hive. This is less than the advised total stores needed for winter so my impression is that, come spring, I don't have several brood frames clogged with stores.
In summary, they eat most of it.

My answer is complicated by the fact that for a few years now in spring I have been in the habit of placing a second BB on each hive or doing a Bailey comb exchange. So yes, that might involve redistributing frames of stores.

This will change: two of my mentorees in the village, who sometimes help me in my apiaries, have taken me by the elbow and advised that senior OAPs should not work double BBs....