Like a virgin??

[Hebeegeebee]

Still my ongoing queen- problem with a new question........
My local beek has advised me that if my one and only hive holds a new queen, poss a virgin, that she will probably fly and mate in the spring, however, he says that if she is not successful he will kindly provide me with a frame of brood/eggs. Is he right and also is it possible to introduce a frame in the spring to produce a queen??

You highlight the fact that some beekeepers are not as knowledgeable as you might think which has not been helpful to you.

My challenge to you is to find out for yourself whether a frame of eggs can be used to produce a queen in normal circumstances !

 

[Outlander]

Outlander, the reason i didnt do 'enough' as you say is because one minute i was advised it was too late to requeen and the next that i should hurry up and get on with it. This opposing advice went on and on, I was even PM'd with a new q for sale last week, to be posted this monday, TOO late methinks.

So I will learn to take forum advice, digest opposing views and hopefully one day be able, with confidence, make my own decisions accordingly. Meanwhile Outlander please try not to be so aggressive with your response, it is most discouraging and disheartening for a new beekeeper.

I feel with this cold weather now moved in it is too late. There are lots on here I have learnt from in just a short time and would listen to over others.

Louby hope I did not upset you too much with my comments but it did slightly annoy me when you did not seem to act on good advice. Anyway good luck for next season.

 

[itma]

Outlander, the reason i didnt do 'enough' as you say is because one minute i was advised it was too late to requeen and the next that i should hurry up and get on with it. This opposing advice went on and on, I was even PM'd with a new q for sale last week, to be posted this monday, TOO late methinks.

So I will learn to take forum advice, digest opposing views and hopefully one day be able, with confidence, make my own decisions accordingly. Meanwhile Outlander please try not to be so aggressive with your response, it is most discouraging and disheartening for a new beekeeper.

The feeling of beating one's head against a brick wall is particularly disheartening.

It is now *much* too late for the bees to generate a useful new queen for themselves, because she must mate to be useful, and that door has closed for this year.

However, that does not mean that attempting to introduce a new *mated* queen would be so utterly futile that it should not be attempted. What would be risked by trying? (Just the queen, and a surplus end-of-season queen should be almost, if not absolutely, free.) // The colony is doomed otherwise.
Queen introduction itself is a non-trivial matter, and can be botched at any time of the year - so research before acting.
But the sooner it was attempted, before it gets properly cold (it isn't with me, not quite yet), the better the chance of success (or to turn it around, delaying it hurts your chances and more importantly diminishes the supply of spare queens, potentially increasing their price.)

With plural colonies, most beekeepers would just take the hit, and vow to learn from the experience.
But as a hobby beek, with only one colony, there *is* something you could try, even if its likelihood of success is probably dropping day-by-day.

Thus "requeening" might be and might not be a viable possibility. The advice is not contradictory, because different things can be understood by 'requeening' - and ultimately it depends on the availability of a spare mated queen, and what the weather chooses to do.

// BBC suggesting +12C for me on Wednesday ...

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Loubylou , I dont know if possible but do you have other bee keepers near by they may be able to unite with a weak col of theirs to over wintre but I will no doubt get slated for this suggestion keeps them off your back???????? Robbie

 

[BeeJayBee]

Most on this forum have said requeen but you have ignored that advice over your so called "SAGE".

In all fairness it's difficult for a new beekeeper to disagree with, or to contradict, somebody who has been helping them, and then tell them the information came from the internet.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry, the reason this has dragged on is because I have had so much contradictory advice I wanted to be absolutely sure that i have got things right

It is vital to learn and commit to memory....even if by rote the basic life cycle of the bee.
Once you understand this you can sift through much contradictory advice and tailor it to your needs.

 

[Chris B]

Well I was one who didn't recommend requeening. There was a suggestion originally the small queen seen "might" be a virgin. I would suggest it's at least as likely she isn't. On that basis why attempt to risk a new queen when there may not be anything wrong except the queen being off lay?
Make sure they are well provisioned and leave them until the first warm afternoon in March and check then. You might find a dwindling colony or more likely you might find a growing one.

Best advice I'm sure all will agree with - get another hive so you can run 2 colonies next season. Not only will you not have all your eggs in 1 basket, but you'll have more options for correcting queen problems when they occur, as they surely do sooner or later.

 

[Loubylou]

Thank you Chris B I think that is what I'll do, it was my gut feeling sometime ago and the least meddlesome for this time of year, it is a risk either way, as I said earlier I am damned if I do and if I don't. But, it could be a happy ending??

I am going to try to be optimistic despite certain people making me feel murderous and unlawful

As you and many have said it is risky having the one hive, so next year i will sort that out too.

Thank you all for your support and input I am now officially putting my bees to bed and keeping my fingers crossed for next year

PS. I will have my nose in bee books all winter!

 

[enrico]

If you AS next year you will get two hives anyway so don't go spending needless money! And then of course you will get four the year after.........help! That's how you get addicted and keep th---nes in business....LOL

 

[For want of a better word]

Loubylou , I dont know if possible but do you have other bee keepers near by they may be able to unite with a weak col of theirs to over wintre but I will no doubt get slated for this suggestion keeps them off your back???????? Robbie

Robbie is right !

Then when the spring brood up begins ( 20th May onwards) you could split the colony and either superceed or requeen.... all is not lost !!!

 

[itma]

.....it is easy to ask a question but try and wait for the answer you want! Don't think we are getting at you.....keep smiling and asking but be prepared to accept answers that you may not want to hear....cheers
E

What is Chris B proposing Loubylou should do, should she discover a feeble colony in March?
Sadly, a nuc in early Spring is going to be much more expensive than a surplus queen in Autumn.

I admire Chris B's optimism!
Without inspection, I personally think that it can only be a wild guess as to whether or not there is a well-mated queen in there, and on that basis, I would proceed based on what gives the best chance of a colony surviving.




The concept of negotiating with another beek a combine and Spring split certainly has its attractions. But how possible is it?

 

[Busybee]

I have to agree with ChrisB and to leave well alone now. It is obvious from posts that loubylou is a new and inexperienced beekeeper and to ask her to re queen now is a tall order.
Why not requeen now.

1)Unknown as to presence of queen for sure. (mated or unmated).
2)If queen obtained what is known of breeding/temperament.
3)Very late in year for new queen and following summer how well has it mated.
3)Has loubylou the experience for this at this stage.

If a mated queen present all is well and good, if not, learn and move on. At times it can be an uphill struggle and as a new beekeeper it can be very difficult without help and encouragement. Sometimes Loubylou things work out and sometimes they don't. I hope in this case it does and if not i wish you better luck next year.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Hi louby

What prep did you do before getting your bees? That should have given you some clues as to what to do when you noticed a problem or is your advisor your only source of info? Try joining an association - they are usually helpful with advice and/or replacement bees/queens in these situations.

 

[drex]

Dear Louby,

My heart goes out to you. I can still remember what it was like in my first season ( a few years ago now) - AND I had read like mad overwinter and been through the association's theory and practical course in the early year.

I suggest you be kind to yourself and mark it up as experience. Reading and a course will help you, and by going on the course you will meet experienced people, who can give you advice.

I have been using the forum for a few years now, and I read some horrendous advice from no doubt well meaning folks but who ( like me) still have a lot to learn. I have posted misinformation myself too, but have learned from more experienced beeks correcting me.

The most valuable thing I read was to have more than one colony, as it can get you out of all sorts of different scrapes. Do not worry about that either, as has been suggested above, when you get a strong healthy colony going, it will soon become two ( or more if you do not keep on top of it.)

Beekeepers as a whole are friendly helpful people.

You have made your decision, as you said above that you have put your bees to bed for the winter. Stick to it.

Next year will be better, or that is always what I tell myself ( and then the 2012 season came along - lol)

 

[Chris B]

I admire Chris B's optimism!

Thanks, but I'd prefer to call it realism. The truth is most beekeepers won't even have inspected brood frames in the last 3 weeks so will be blisfully unaware if they have no brood. Queens on and off lay isn't unusual and I've seen more of it this year than ever. So I think that's the most likely scenario described by loubylou. I can't be sure. But attempting to requeen this late in the season is in itself risky, and I wouldn't try it unless I knew it was their only chance. A failed requeening would also result in a spring dwindle.

 

[Outlander]

I think you should check out the three threads before this one which lead up to this one.

Oct 9th: Talked about lots of dead bees in this colony which had been strong with a laying queen up till September.

Oct 15th Louby wrote, and I quote.

“I am pretty sure that I don't have a queen anymore as I haven't seen or had evidence of her for over a month now. Will the colony, if it survives, be ok without her over the winter and what should I do regarding getting another in place for next year?”

Oct 17th “At last inspection (Sunday just gone) there was no evidence of brood at all, and none for about a month. But today I have noticed pollen going in, is this a sign of 'her' being present?? Also lots of bees outside the hive seem to be feeding each other, is that normal?”

Oct 21st “Well it was 'doing my head in' seeing no queen and finding 100's of dead bees around the hives. I was ready to throw the towel in and feeling very sad too. But all is not lost as my local beekeeper sage cast his learned eye over my hive and found my queen (a new lady,smaller and a darker colour......no wonder i couldn't see her) and assured me that although I have had a lot of inexplicable deaths I still have a good healthy colony ready to over winter with a new queen (poss virgin) to see the new year in. So here goes my next question (one I should have asked Mr Sage)....
If all the drones have been kicked out and I have a virgin queen at home, how will she find a suitor for next year? My guess is that the workers will lay drones ready for mating the new Q???? is the wrong answer???!!!
I am sure the answer is so obvious but I couldn't find it in my books either.”

21st “There is no brood, old queen had gone and new queen is not producing any eggs. She is smaller than old Q and darker, i dont know how to tell if she is a virgin Q. Do they mate late in the year??”

Oct 26th “Still my ongoing queen- problem with a new question........
My local beek has advised me that if my one and only hive holds a new queen, poss a virgin, that she will probably fly and mate in the spring, however, he says that if she is not successful he will kindly provide me with a frame of brood/eggs. Is he right and also is it possible to introduce a frame in the spring to produce a queen??”

26th “Sorry, the reason this has dragged on is because I have had so much contradictory advice I wanted to be absolutely sure that i have got things right as I only have one colony. I am new to this, nervous and feel a great responsibility to look after my bees in the best possible way, please don't be grumpy with me!

However, the forum has been very useful, I have learnt a lot and I thank you for all your time and energies.

I will pass your info onto my bee pal........in the nicest way!”


Around two weeks of dithering. Most people advised requeen. This was from beeks that have been about yeasrs and also from some that make a living from bees so I think that their advice is worth something.

The chances of it being a mated queen after sifting through all the evidence slim to nil. Doomed colony.

Requeened two weeks ago, very good chance of survival.

It’s OK to say poor old louby there there there better luck next year. Well I’m sorry but as I stated before if this was cattle or dog she would find herself in trouble with the law but as they are just insects it’s OK to let them all die. As for the “SAGE” what a numpty.

from keeping bees I think until been on a course and can prove she knows at least some of the basics.


He who dithers loses.

 

[mbc]

I think you should check out the three threads before this one which lead up to this one.

Oct 9th: Talked about lots of dead bees in this colony which had been strong with a laying queen up till September.

Oct 15th Louby wrote, and I quote.

“I am pretty sure that I don't have a queen anymore as I haven't seen or had evidence of her for over a month now. Will the colony, if it survives, be ok without her over the winter and what should I do regarding getting another in place for next year?”

Oct 17th “At last inspection (Sunday just gone) there was no evidence of brood at all, and none for about a month. But today I have noticed pollen going in, is this a sign of 'her' being present?? Also lots of bees outside the hive seem to be feeding each other, is that normal?”

Oct 21st “Well it was 'doing my head in' seeing no queen and finding 100's of dead bees around the hives. I was ready to throw the towel in and feeling very sad too. But all is not lost as my local beekeeper sage cast his learned eye over my hive and found my queen (a new lady,smaller and a darker colour......no wonder i couldn't see her) and assured me that although I have had a lot of inexplicable deaths I still have a good healthy colony ready to over winter with a new queen (poss virgin) to see the new year in. So here goes my next question (one I should have asked Mr Sage)....
If all the drones have been kicked out and I have a virgin queen at home, how will she find a suitor for next year? My guess is that the workers will lay drones ready for mating the new Q???? is the wrong answer???!!!
I am sure the answer is so obvious but I couldn't find it in my books either.”

21st “There is no brood, old queen had gone and new queen is not producing any eggs. She is smaller than old Q and darker, i dont know how to tell if she is a virgin Q. Do they mate late in the year??”

Oct 26th “Still my ongoing queen- problem with a new question........
My local beek has advised me that if my one and only hive holds a new queen, poss a virgin, that she will probably fly and mate in the spring, however, he says that if she is not successful he will kindly provide me with a frame of brood/eggs. Is he right and also is it possible to introduce a frame in the spring to produce a queen??”

26th “Sorry, the reason this has dragged on is because I have had so much contradictory advice I wanted to be absolutely sure that i have got things right as I only have one colony. I am new to this, nervous and feel a great responsibility to look after my bees in the best possible way, please don't be grumpy with me!

However, the forum has been very useful, I have learnt a lot and I thank you for all your time and energies.

I will pass your info onto my bee pal........in the nicest way!”


Around two weeks of dithering. Most people advised requeen. This was from beeks that have been about yeasrs and also from some that make a living from bees so I think that their advice is worth something.

The chances of it being a mated queen after sifting through all the evidence slim to nil. Doomed colony.

Requeened two weeks ago, very good chance of survival.

It’s OK to say poor old louby there there there better luck next year. Well I’m sorry but as I stated before if this was cattle or dog she would find herself in trouble with the law but as they are just insects it’s OK to let them all die. As for the “SAGE” what a numpty.

from keeping bees I think until been on a course and can prove she knows at least some of the basics.


He who dithers loses.

Stalker

 

[enrico]

BAN from keeping bees I think until been on a course and can prove she knows at least some of the basics.

Seems harsh, bees in general keep themselves and we assist, you can draw no comparison to keeping animals. If you don't feed or care for a dog it will go wild
or die, bees are not like that, they are meant to live in the wild and it is only our interference that has meant it is nearly impossible for them to do so. BUT, they are still basically wild. We merely use them (like cats use us!)
I learnt mainly from my mistakes and not from courses or books. I have been reduced to tears by bees and have felt guilt when I lost my first hive. But that is what bees do, live and die, and while we can manage them to some extent and maybe help a hive to live longer it s not, in my opinion, a crime for them to die through lack of a queen. If you mistreat an animal then it is criminal, if you fail to provide a hive with a mated queen and therefore they perish, it is not and never should be.
The mistakes that Lou has made this year may be regrettable, indeed they may have been preventable, but that is what we call learning. She may have failed to act on more knowledgeable advice but different advice came from those claiming more knowledge than her!
I agree with some of your sentiments but not all your comparisons. We give advice, it is for the readers to decide if they wish to take it, their bees may live or die as a consequence which may make us wonder why we give advice but it is all a part of learning. We are hear to teach and not to police!

 

[Outlander]

Stalker

You’re so funny, why not let it out and say what you really mean.

 

[Chris B]

The chances of it being a mated queen after sifting through all the evidence slim to nil. Doomed colony.

Outlander, I wish I was your bookie.