Kingspan

[thorn]

My builder has given me some kingspan offcuts. They're 4" deep, so won't go under the hive roofs. Presumably this is not the stuff you kingspan fans post about.
The kingspan website has any number of different insulation products on it. What is the product I should be looking for?

 

[alldigging]

They would go insider a super though?

 

[user 6228]

This is from thermal measurements and calculations

For full size hives: you are looking for 50mm if use on top and sides. If roof only any thickness.

For apidea and mini-nucs :you can increase the thickness. depending on the volume.

But when the temperature comes above 20C ,for protracted periods and without nectar flow, make sure you are prompt to add height to the hive

 

[MikeT]

This is the material used. Normally for beehives it is 2 inch thick but as suggested cut it to fit into a super.

 

[itma]

My builder has given me some kingspan offcuts. They're 4" deep, so won't go under the hive roofs. Presumably this is not the stuff you kingspan fans post about.
The kingspan website has any number of different insulation products on it. What is the product I should be looking for?

Very likely the one you have.
Light stiff very fine-grained foam with aluminium foil bonded onto both sides.

100mm is even better insulation than 50mm thick. The thicker stuff only comes in big sheets though - and the price is based on the volume of the stuff, so the big sheets of the thick stuff are much more expensive than small sheets of the thin stuff … and if you were only insulating a few hives …

Yes you can cut it (bread knife if you don't have a big saw) to fit inside a super.
Or - if you've got plenty, you could make up an entire derekhive-style roof. A big square of the stuff like 460 + (2x100) + 25 (for a loose fit) so 685mm square for the top then 4 sides 685 - 100 = 585 mm long by perhaps 100mm deep. Stick the bits together with a suitable glue (nick some from the builder) having previously used cocktail sticks (or bamboo skewers) to 'dowel' the joints. Finish by taping all the joins/seams (inside and out) with greenhouse aluminium sticky tape (£6 at Screwfix if you or Lidls don't have any - again the builder might!) Then use this creation instead of your normal roof - just stick a couple of bricks on top to stop it blowing away.

Remember that you should have a closed-off coverboard under the insulation, whichever way you plan to use it.

 

[Finman]

100mm is even better insulation than 50mm thick. The thicker stuff only comes in big sheets though -it.

It does not help if sides are thin and you have a mesh floor.

 

[enrico]

Cut it in half with a saw! No problem!

 

[drstitson]

as per others - you have struck gold. you can cut the sheet in half to give 50mm thick or just use the 100mm stuff. whatever thickness you use it should be placed within an eke or super that the roof fits over; although many would also advocate using extra deep roofs anyway.

although derekM has excellent data for his 50mm recommendation, many (not me) subscribe to the chinese take-away tub trickle feeding on fondant through winter and normally this set-up involves two sheets of 50mm kingspan - one with cut out for tub the other solid to go above.
personally if i had sourced free/cheap 100mm stuff and had enough to kit out all my hives, then i'd use it as is; might not be adding anything significant thermal wise but nicer to keep stuff intact.

and don't forget - the smaller offcuts make excellent insulated dummy/divider boards.

 

[Itchy]

"But when the temperature comes above 20C ,for protracted periods and without nectar flow, make sure you are prompt to add height to the hive"

Not sure I understand that statement?

 

[user 6228]

"But when the temperature comes above 20C ,for protracted periods and without nectar flow, make sure you are prompt to add height to the hive"

Not sure I understand that statement?

simply put:
in a insulated nest
bees iregulate nest temperature as the ambient (out side of the nest) temperature rises by:

1. reduction of metabolic rate
2. spreading out
3. honey ripening (fanning included)
4. evapourating water brought in for that purpose (fanning)
5. ventilating - fanning

My statement is saying when option 1 reaches its limit, and option 3 is not available make sure they can do option 2 while staying inside the nest.
though I must say bearding in our insulated hives is rare.

 

[Hivemaker.]

though I must say bearding in our insulated hives is rare.

Could that be because they keep swarming, or your forever splitting them, so there are not often enough bees in them for bearding.

 

[user 6228]

Could that be because they keep swarming, or your forever splitting them, so there are not often enough bees in them for bearding.

no they dont appear to swarm more often than other types of hive (i.e. usually once per year per colony though we had one colony do it twice this year, but this year was exceptional for bees)
no we dont split except as part of artificial swarming process just like anybody else
They do appear to be very willing to cast and cast again though if given any chance as ITLD notes that in his polyhives.

P.s. so far they do rather well over winter

 

[itma]

simply put:
in a insulated nest
bees iregulate nest temperature as the ambient (out side of the nest) temperature rises by:

1. reduction of metabolic rate
2. spreading out
3. honey ripening (fanning included)
4. evapourating water brought in for that purpose (fanning)
5. ventilating - fanning

My statement is saying when option 1 reaches its limit, and option 3 is not available make sure they can do option 2 while staying inside the nest.
…

The unstated bit is that this lot only occurs when the airspace inside the hive (or cluster*) gets too hot for the bees.
And that is when it gets well into the thirties C.
A rare problem for most of us during the winter!


* If the cluster gets too hot in the middle from normal metabolic heating, the cluster simply loosens or breaks up, and the bees spread out a bit.
Jeffree did some fairly simplistic calculations (I'm pretty sure that would be Derek's opinion ) about what happened with excessively large colonies - basically, when they cluster, they should overheat in the middle, thus explaining their difficulty in overwintering. I can't see why they wouldn't form ventilation chimneys through the cluster, in a similar manner to the way summer swarm clusters prevent themselves from overheating …

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I cased mine top and sides with 6mm ply and bottom with sticky plastic. Holding up really well. Have added skirts to standard roofs.

 

[user 6228]

The unstated bit is that this lot only occurs when the airspace inside the hive (or cluster*) gets too hot for the bees.
And that is when it gets well into the thirties C.
A rare problem for most of us during the winter!


* If the cluster gets too hot in the middle from normal metabolic heating, the cluster simply loosens or breaks up, and the bees spread out a bit.
Jeffree did some fairly simplistic calculations (I'm pretty sure that would be Derek's opinion ) about what happened with excessively large colonies - basically, when they cluster, they should overheat in the middle, thus explaining their difficulty in overwintering. I can't see why they wouldn't form ventilation chimneys through the cluster, in a similar manner to the way summer swarm clusters prevent themselves from overheating …

maybe I should have instead said insulation doesnt abrogate actually doing some bee keeping.

Jeffree may have been using the constant surface cluster temperature model then that would expain his reasoning. That model has been left behind by researchers in favour of a constant core model.

. Temperarature is not the only factor E.g. the very large colonies could be suffering from dehydration or dehydration induced starvation since cold walled hive is a dehumidifer, and so is a top vented hive in winter.
(The thermology of wintering honey bee colonies Wilson 1971 ... read with care! some of the experiment design is poor )

 

[IBeeHere]

Just to let all you folks know that derekm is doing a talk on his findings on hive insulation at Basingstoke Beekeepers Tomorrow Thur20th at 7:30 pm all welcome £2 on the door to cover tea and biscuits, venue at Viables Craft Centre.